not sure if dogs should have bread as they can be allergic to grains etc,

According to Ms. Bruno (The Italiian vet. and author of several books on the Newfoundland breed) dogs should not have bread simply because their digestive system does not deal with it well. She did write in one book that if the bread is toasted it's OK I'm not sure how toasting it makes any difference but I pass it on FWIW

Sheree, I know less than anyone on medical matters so sorry I can't really advise you, your logic on the AB's seems faultless to me but maybe vets have other things to consider. Bara's tummy is not perfect of that I'm certain, she has bouts of runny pooh, and then it gets better, only to go runny again a few weeks latter, and our vets can't really find anything wrong with her.

I hope you can get Leon back to full health he's such a lovely looking dog.

It's now been three months since my boy was rushed to the vets and put onto a drip, followed by weeks of diarrhoer (sp) and cowpats, blood and faecal tests, plus ongoing antibiotics.

He had a relapse last month when he finished his course of ab's but, since then, has been quite good and responded well to the ab's. He was on Noroclav, Metronidazole and Predno Leucotropin which was prescribed to help with his arthritis as well as the bad tummy.

His results again came back inconclusive, they know that all his organs are working well, thank goodness, but they still can't grow anything on the culture and all they can say with some degree of confidence is that he has a high volume of bacteria in his gut.

He has lost over 10 kilos in weight since 9th August and although he probably looks and feels better being that much lighter, (he is a heavy boned lad so has never been skinny), I am concerned that he is still losing weight and he will eventually succumb to something serious.

He last went to the vets three weeks ago when he was taken off the noroclav and given another 10 days prescription of the metronidazole. The vet was thrilled with his progress and said that he hoped that he was on the road to recovery and that some dogs have to be on ab's for up to 6 months when they have this sort of problem. I had another lengthy discussion about him being able to have panacur wormer, just incase it was giardia despite it showing as negative, but the vet said that he is too ill to be given that, his stomach lining is far too sensitive but that is why he has been prescribed the metronidazole as it has, apparently, one of the same ingredients as the panacur wormer so would kill off the giardia if he did have it.
Since his bad bout of last month Leon has been on the up and up, you wouldn't know he had anything wrong with him, he looks healthy enough and is enjoying life to the full, he even managed to do a few solid poos towards the end of two weeks ago.

He finished the metronidazole last Monday and the vet said I was to monitor him and let him know how he was, he still was having one of the predno tablets a day for his arthritis but nothing else. After a couple of days his eyeballs went bright red again, (apparently that is the mucus membranes enflaming and he had that last time), and he started straining when trying to pass motions and often didn't pass anything. I waited until Thursday morning and then phoned the vets to let them know what was happening.

We had another lengthy discussion over the phone, the vet suggested they operate to remove some of the tissue in the gut so they can get a clearer picture of whats going on in there. Now, maybe I'm wrong but I feel that to cut him open at this stage, when there is all that bacteria laying around is just asking for trouble and I refused to have it done. I would do anything for my boy but I feel that it is totally the wrong time to go down that route, how can his wound heal itself with the bacteria at the level it is?

I went in and saw the vet on Friday, he has agreed that he can have another 10 days of both the metronidazole and the noroclav, he has to come off the pred for his joints as he feels that could be aggravating his stomach and he has now given him cosequin ds which has has to have 3 times a day for 30 days, reducing to 2 tablets daily thereafter.

I'm not a vet so am only going on gut instinct but surely, if his tummy is fine when he is on the ab's then it can't be anything more sinister that the bacteria overgrowth. The vet is again suggesting mal-absorbtion and said that the reason Leon isn't skin and bone is because I've kept on top of things and got him to the vets for treatment as soon as there has been any sign of anythign wrong. He has also suggested bowel disease, one of the reasons he wants to give him a GA and take a sample, but would ab's keep that at bay as well as they have done? Surely if you have bowel disease there's only one way to cure it and that is to remove the diseased part.

He has his Purina EN complete food once a day with either chicken, fish or eggs, and he has toast or bread with some fish, chicken or eggs for breakfast and lunch time so he can take his tablets. He has the odd custard cream too but only maybe one or two a week, other than that he isn't haveing any treats, just so I can make sure his tummy is tolerating what he is being given.

I've cried so much lately over him and the others but am now just getting desperate to sort him out. As I said, he is in no pain or discomfort, in fact he is enjoying his walks so much he has me out about 5 times a day and we walk for about a mile and half each time...possibly another reason he has lost weight.

So, neither I or the vet really know whats wrong with him, just that when he's on the ab's his toiletting is normal, within days of coming off them he is straining and either passing nothing or cowpats...and his eyes look enflamed too but calm down as soon as he is back on the ab's.

We're now up to £700 in costs, we've not had any money back yet from the insurance company and although he will still receive any treatment he needs, I just wonder if the insurers can decide they aren't going to cover him, especially if the vets can't actually give a firm diagnosis.

He is WRONG!!!! Tell him to phone MY vets who are a RCVS Hospital, I'm sure they'll be willing to tell him that Metronidazole does NOT cure giardia, as I'm sure you must have by now read 100 times over on t'internet as well Sheree!!!!!! I have already told you both my dogs were EXTREMELY ill, poor little Zena passing neat yellow water with bits of chicken in it and blood, and poor Georgie was almost unable to move he felt so ill, but my vet STILL prescribed the equivalent of Panacur which worked and twice!

I know Helena, I've read and re-read the details on the internet, told him about your two and begged him to try it but he won't prescribe the Panacur and I'm scared to try to get it from somewhere else just incase it makes Leon worse, I would never forgive myself if that happened. He told me that one of the ingredients in the Metronidazole is exactly the same as in the Panacur which is why he prescribed that in the first place. I'm banging my head against a wall here but I daren't change vets just yet, especially as Leon is doing well at the moment. I popped his claim form in this afternoon and have asked for the vet to ring me when he has finished his surgery as I am going to ask him to refer Leon to a specialist. If they tell me the same then I'll have to accept it but at least I won't feel that I'm being fobbed off.