DNA prof of all dogs is a step forward, but sadly it still wouldnt stop the selling of pups to shops, it wouldnt have any impact on the transfer of dogs from person to person to stop them doing it,.

I think that DNA proof is the way to go. Just hope the KC will implement something. I know it wouldn't stop people selling pups to shops but, surely, the more difficult (and expensive) the KC make it for people to register pups, the more lowlife Breeders will find another way to make money (*here's hoping*).

OOOOOPS...................just noticed, we've been split from the original thread

Like I said before though, I have reservations about the KC and some of their policies/actions but I don't have a problem with Crufts! Like somebody said, it's a dog show! I will have my eyes glued to the pc screen for the next few days, watching Crufts live Can't wait to see the Toy Breeds - my fave

I find KC dog shows really boring (and a little pointless because I`ve got the loveliest dogs anyway ) but I can see they`re an absorbing interest for those who are into it. And a useful place for breeders etc. to get together.
The problem I do have is with the Judges - who seem sometimes to favour a particular trend (long ears, say) so that gets exaggerated and then the breeders try to go for dogs with longer ears. I think the KC and the Breed Societies need to get together with the judges to discuss issues of exaggeration and health.

That doesn't make sense to me. A lot of people that KC register their dogs make profit - does that mean that many breeders of your breed wouldn't touch the KC with a barge pole?

Why choose the one thing to take a stand over that the KC seem to be doing to help people to find breeders that put the health of animals over anything else?

I don't think the accredited breeder scheme does enough. There should be more required tests for many breeds. But if I was looking for a puppy in the future and decided against a different breed (I now know a lot about the breeders of my current breed and would know who to avoid) I would be very wary of anyone that chose to stay away from the accredited breeder scheme.

Out of interest, do you know if these breeders that avoid the scheme do all the tests and pass all the other criteria for membership?

Because the KC don't police it...therefore things go through the net.

Ok, but why not avoid KC registration if their lack of action over bad breeding practices bothers them? Why just pick on the section that *supposedly* aims to improve breeding practices? Do you think the accredited breeder scheme is just a sham - a publicity stunt - to make people think that the KC give a damn about poor breeding practices in certain breeds and by certain breeders? (This is an accusation that many people are making and I think this is why many people are objecting to crufts - they feel that the KC aren't doing enough to stop the suffering).

Personally I think that the ABS is a good idea...but not enough was done when setting it up..nor does it go far enough.
I think that it should be compulsory that members offer lifetime support for the pups they breed AND care for the pups should the owner not be able to keep them anymore.

I also think these guidelines are poor.
Taken from:
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/473
I think 6 litter is FAR too many for a bitch to have in one lifetime..I also think that any bitch under 2 and a half (absolute minimum) shouldn't be bred from.
I also think 8 is too old....

So no, I don't think the ABS is any good...it could have been, but it is not policed and looking at the breeding guidelines (which I hasten to add you have to really search for on the KC site, they do not make it easy to find out how old a bitch should be when mated or how many litters she should have)...
Basically, the KC would okay it if a bitch had her first litter at 14 months and then had one a year.....that's wrong.

My breed societies code of ethics goes much further you see...

Just to add as I missed part of Scarters post earlier.
The breeders I know of that stay away from the ABS actually do over and above the necessary health checks for the ABS
I would go to someone on the breed litter register rather than to someone on the KC site as I know for my breed that I trust the litter registry people to vet both potential puppy purchasers and the breeders.

Crufts do not set the standards ... as Shona has said... it is one of hundreds of dog shows....

the Standards are set by breed clubs and enforced by the KC.

If you disapprove of dogs shows, thats your right, but disapprove of them for the right reasons... done blame them for what they are not guilty off.



I done think the price of registering a litter whether it high or low , will detere the unscrupulous to register.. they will just charge more for their pups if they have to pay more to register them.

The only way they KC will be able to enforce good breeding practices is to .... make it mandatory for breeders to show proof of all health testing of their dogs..along with DDA profile to ensure the dog is who it is supposed to be,

But as the KC keeps saying , they are a voluntary organisation.. they have nor power to make people breed ethically... they do what they can, and are trying to improve as they go.