I think it's a great overview of the research & fallout from aversives when used in dog training & behaviour modification ~ well backed up by proper peer-reviewed, published scientific research.

I have one of Karen Overall's books, aimed at vets so not particularly interesting reading for all dog owners. But she's done some great work trying to highlight some of the cruel practices in the USA. It's the research done by people like this that will form our future treatment of dogs, as the science trickles down to the dog-owning public. We're learning more & more evry day because of these studies. Look how far we've come already from the days of Barbara Woodhouse, & the cruel practices that used to be used by police & the forces. These old-fashioned methods of using aversives in dog training have been so discredited because of the research done by people like Overall, to the extent that forums like this are full of people promoting pos R, & kind, empathetic training methods.

Never mind Adam ~ I just hope the trickle of empathy for dogs reaches you one day soon!

I do like post 21 of that:

I understand though that the Tortora study involved high level use of electric shock (stim) as well as low, and that during the study dogs were beaten with switches and/or newspapers when asked to do an obedience command.

This clearly causes a welfare problem and few would be keen to subject their dogs to this kind of treatment, which surely has to be considered extreme and abusive?

I don't think supporters of that study seem to ever mention this?
Why not?

MODS: sorry not sure if this above bit is allowed or not! Please do delete if inappropriate!


No, I think she writes with passion about something she believes in. She has been attacked by shock collar supporters, as has anyone who speaks out against them.

Karen Overall's review is a good, scientific, well thought out and well written article.


Wys
x

Thanks for bringing it to our attention,Sara'n'Scout

I'm going to digest it some more.
Dr Karen Overall has also written some other fab articles.

Wys
x

Can you stop spamming this thread - make your points in one post, unless you are replying to someone with a point they have made.

Thanks Sara'n'Scout

Yes, think so too.

I'm not spamming, I'm commenting, points get brought up new and I answer them.

Re the Overall article

I misunderstod, I thought it was a science paper, but, what she wrote is ifs buts & maybe's, samle

Karen Overall - The hippocampus is the primary region where fears and anxieties associated with fearful stimuli are thought to originate, so a logical sequela to a stressful, painful stimulus may be fear, phobia, or withdrawal.

She's just ad libbing tbh.

Adam

While I disagree with that aspect of the study The study did set out to elminate defensive aggresison in dogs and this was one (pretty extreme) way of testing it. Which by the way worked.

For full study follow the link http://www.4shared.com/document/OuXHUYuM/Tortora.html


Adam

Educated guestimates because, as yet, we can only make educated guestimates based on the physiological knowledge we possess.

However educated guestimates are far better than uneducated drivel - wouldn't you agree?

What like the antis (who have never even seen an e collar used) spout regularly?

Adam