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Location: UK
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,497
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Originally Posted by
Dawes Paws
this is a genuine question, i believe someone once said, "in order to defeat our enemy, we must first understand them" no idea who lol, may have even made it up!!
Anyway I want to know how aversives are used in every day training, why you choose that particular method and why an averise rather than an R+ method.
so for those of you who regularly use tools such as e-collar, check chains or prong collars, how would you teach:
Sit,
Down
Recall
Wait/stay
Leave
Heel
For each behaviour, i want to know, what method you use, be it an R+ or an aversive, which tool you use to implement it, i.e: toys/treats or prong and why you choose that above other methods. I also want to know how long you would use the aversive for? do you use them on your own dogs,? and is it only whilst teaching or on a regular basis, to "remind them"?
If you dont use aversive's to train any of the listed behaviours, then when and why do you use them. If you can teach everything without aversives in the first place (behaviours listed are the foundation to many behaviours) then why choose aversives simply because a behaviour has become exagerated.
Lastly; what will you use to train the dog if/when such things as e collars and prongs are banned?!
Like I said, genuine question, trying to understand why you guys do what you do, in the hope that if we can understand you, then perhaps you could begin to stand R+ trainers a little more.
I use e collars mostly, but the training still involves reward. Basically each time the dog does the right behaviour it is rewarded.
The method I use with e collar uses the e collar sensation as negative reinforcement. This is simialr to pressure and release training with horses. The stim is pressure, stopping is the release.
Training behaviours
For each of the position type behaviours (come,heel,sit,down ect) I start with the dog on lead, I give the command and use the stim (working level) and guide the dog into the position. So move the dog towards me for recall/heel or manouver the dog into the sit/down. When the dog steps towards or begins to down for example I stop the stim, praise and give a food reward (toys too).
I then repeat. Once the behaviour is going well I refine it into what I want, e;g proper heel ect.
I'm basically shaping with pos and neg reinforcement.
For stationary commands I will add the word stay to the position, move away a little then come back and reward. If the dog breaks I will stim, repeat the comamnd and guide the dog into the behaviour. Just build up distance gradually.
Leave is basically ''leave'' stim pull dog away from food ect.
How long to teach, most dogs get stuff very quickly e;g session or two, they may require enforcement and reminders for longer, especially when distraction proofing. I always reward successful behaviours with food/praise/toys or premack.
I do this with my own and clients dogs, I make no distinction.
I often come across dogs who already know a command but choose to ignore it when distracted/insufficently motivated. In these cases I will simply enforce the command as above.
I hope thats not to long
Adam