I'll just reiterate what others have said. I hate the whole notion of dominance theory full stop. Punishment tools such as choke collars or prong collars and shock collars or other aversives, like shaker bottles, spray bottles etc. Bark collars (like shock collars but for barking) and electric fences (with their electric collars) Alpha rolling, pinning, "taking air away" flooding and any other form of bullying or fear mongering.

my old roomate would rub his dogs nose in poo and smack his butt/ yell at the poor thing, i let him know realy quick that wasnt helping anything... the poor pup is 3 months old and doesnt even know its own name, it goes to the bathroom where ever he wants and the guy thinks its the pups fault. some people just dont deserve dogs

I think there are levels you can take it too.

On the other hand - if you`re having to do it every day there`s a fair possibility it`s not working.
Re. the eating first thing - this is taken from who`s first at the kill in wild wolf packs. You have not hunted and killed with your dog and he`s not a wolf - so what`s the point?
With a pushy dog I find teaching an alternative behaviour is a lot easier. (e.g. sit for a fuss / do a trick for food etc. )

The poor pup, can you educate him gently?

His method clearly is'nt working. He needs to go out each time with the pup and reward with food and praise when pup performs

However, at first the pup may be too scared to go in front of him so he may need to get help or just be patient.

Clear up all mess with special stuff not disinfectant which has ammonia smell in it.

Get help from a modern trainer - otherwise, he will ruin his dog ... so sad.

It's really abuse

Wys
x

i totally agree as far as the abuse goes, i did try to explain too him on multiple occasions that raising a puppy is hard work and he needs to start doing lots of reading, after it ws apparent this was not going to happen i told him the dog must get a trainer... well i ended up moving out a bit later and we are no longer on speaking terms.. the dog is such a sweetheart and deserves better, before leaving i asked him to find the dog a new home, i told him the dog deserves some one who will love and take care of him. although i know this is probably why were not talking i really dont mind... the pup deserves better. i do think he is trying to find him a new home, as sad as this is its for the better, theres no excuse to hit a dog

Good thread .

I agree that all punitive methods have adverse effects ~ what's the point of scaring a dog or making it nervous? Once they're feeling apprehensive/worried/scared how does anyone expect them to learn anything? Dogs (& people) need to engage their brains to learn from training, so it's not going to help to scare a dog witless. And if you imagine that you are feeling terrified that something horrible is about to happen to you, then someone asks you to learn Japanese, you're not goung to be able take in anything at all! Plus how do we know that they're going to learn what it is we're trying to teach them if we make them scared first?

I love the explanation of using punishment effectively in Karen Pryor's "Don't Shoot the Dog". She says that punishment can be an effective method of training but ONLY if certain conditions are met. Meeting these conditions is so difficult & challenging that it's much easier to find another way. For punishment to be effective it must not be used for retribution or revenge, it must be initially severe, it must fit the "crime", it must happen every time the "crime" is committed, it must be immediate & it must not be associated with an inconvenient stimulus (e.g. a particular person). It's not easy to get these conditions right.

She then goes on to give an example of what the world would be like if, every time you park illegally, your car gets blown up!! The punishment fits all of these criteria ~ it is intense, it is immediate, it happens every time, it fits the crime because your car no longer exists & no doubt, no-one would ever park illegally again! But talk about overkill .

Apart from everything else mentioned, another bugbear of mine are training discs & rattle cans, also shock methods because people are too lazy to train correct behaviours or find an alternative acceptable behaviour.

erm, consistency?? Works wonders when dog training?
So - I give the wait command to my dogs before we walk through my front door (onto a busy street) one day and they follow me out, then the next day in a moment of walkies excitement I let them bolt out of it in front of me? I think not.

It has worked, thanks to my consistency. I have never laid a hand on any of my dogs, I wouldn't attempt an alpha roll or such like?! Although I still give the simple 'wait' voice command, I have never needed to force my dogs to wait for me to go through first, and now they don't need to be bribed with a treat to do it anymore either. They listen and respect me.

Thanks for the treat reward method advice, we've been using it for years, and do weekly when Keisha does her agility. When out on walks, they wait for me at gates, again, I go through before them so there's no chance they can worry sheep if the sheep have been moved in their that day, and so they don't gallop through the gate into the face of another dog, startling it (I wish more people would make their dogs wait for them, my female hates it when another dog appears in her face full pelt, the other dog always gets a reaction )

A lot of dogs don't seem to have manners when out and about, more and more so? The other day a (adult) collie jumped right up at me, and was all barks and whines, yes with excitement but to me, in a busy park it's not really acceptable behaviour? What if I had had a baby with me or it has knocked me over, and god forbid if I was scared of dogs!? I would be mortified if my dogs did that to a stranger!

Thanks for the wolves tales. I don't agree with that food method either. I own domesticated dogs, and it really isn't that practical either with modern day living!

What are these?

My most hated and Ive been around various dog clubs/ trainers prob since the late 60's early 70's is the "forced retrieve)