Hi,
Thanx everyone. i think you're all right. It's much easier to see what's going on when an "outsider" puts their point of view across.
I readily admit that I pushed Zane too hard and most probably too quickly last year. As I work from home I was with the dogs all the time and I spent much of that time training Zane rather than doing any work!
Helena - I obviously didn't make myself clear. When in the park and Zane is off lead, at certain intervals I'd recal him, as you say, for no apparent reason. He wuld always come back but I didn't want him thinking that every time I called him back in the park it would just be to go home. i thought I'd have problems gettgin him back if I did thes; hence the recall during/throughout the time we spent in the park.
The trainers don't yet know that his recall has gone to pot. it's a recent thing and I've only just gone back to training. It hasn't happened every time. Much of the time when I recall him he comes straight away. Because he became so good at it, and it's something that was done each and every time we went to the park (and at home, in the field, at my Mom's etc) I thought it was just a one off occasion until he did it again; that's why now he's on a long lead. We still do the recall training whilst on the lead any chance we get - whether in the garden, in the field etc. Id on't see what difference it makes as he has to recall straight away regardless of where he is IMO.
It's not that he doesn't recall at all. It's that there have been a few occasions when he's approached other dogs and I've not been happy with it. I've called him back and he's ignored me. Now the owners of the other dogs have said it doesn't matter when I've fetched him and apologised profusely but it does matter to me. I don't want him to have poor/no doggy manners and I don't know that a dog he approaches is going to be friendly. Nor does the other owner know that Zane is just wanting to play. Maybe I panicked a little soon on this but it's because he wouldn't recall when he shoul dhave done that I now keep him on a harness (flaming expensive as it's such a big one) and long lead.
As far as him being advanced is concerned, at the moment he most definitely isn't. When I say advanced with regard to training I didn't mean in terms of competition work. I meant in terms of standard "pet" training, if that makes sense.
Because I didn't like what the trainer of the intermediate group was doing with one of the dogs in his class (using "old" CM methods) Zane jumped from the puppy class to the advanced class. it wasn't a straight jump though - I did loads of work with him at home to get him up to the standard where he would do what was asked of him in the advanced class.
Quite often I go back to basics as such with im by reinforcing sit, stay, down etc. I don't usually force him to stay put with me out of the room for any length of time but he had worked up to 3 minutes. This isn't essential for me and I think for tasks like this I'll leave them for now. They can always come later so long as he stays for a minute or so, which he is doing.
The fact that I taught him "down" saved his life IMO. He managed to get out of the front of the house once, inthe dark. I live on quite a busy road and he was heading for the road. It's the only time I've raised my voice like that to any dog but I almost screeched at him to go down. He did so straight away on the tarmac just before he got to the road. Now whether that was because he'd bee taught (which I'd like to think was the case) or whether he heard the chagein tone of voice etc I don't know. But the point is he did it. Hadhe not done it, he'd have quite possibly been run over (not least because he was much darker back then and would have been harder to see inthe dark!)
I have no problem starting from scratch with him re training. The basics such as sit, stay, wait, down are things I do every day with him anyway at home (and with Yiannis too. Ellie and Buddy are a different kettle of fish altogether) and these are second nature to him. He's doing these allthe time so i suppose he doens't get the chance to forget as such.
Shona - What is DC? I had him at 6/7 weeks old, back in February 2008.
So with going back to training, do I assume Zane knows nothing and he's never done anything at all? It would be easier to do this then absolutely everything is done rather than just picking bits I think he's not responding too.
Also, in time, do you think it's worth redoing the KCGC tests? He's already done them but if he's not at that standard now maybe he should do them again after being retrained. Or maybe it's not relevant if he'a already done it. Would he be allowed to redo it?
From what everyone has said (and I agree with everyone), I think I'll start back in the puppy class with Zane and work him up again from there. If he can do what I'm asking then fine. If there's something he doesn't do then I'll just do the extra work with him at home etc.
I'd like him to be advanced in terms of being a well behaved pet. Competition/show work can always come later andI think is way above even the level he got to last year when he was at his best (or so I thought).
What makes it harder is that Buddy is a couple of months younger than Zane, does ringcraft etc and now he's showing a little bit of character seems to be better trained/behaved than Zane, even though a lot more work
has gone into Zane. As you said Steph, his age, size and breed are probably a lot to do with it. Zane is the biggest dog I have and the oldest. but it's clear that even wit a lot of work goin ginto him, it makes no difference when compared to other/smaller breeds.
Laura xx