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Ramble
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11-03-2009, 06:49 PM
Originally Posted by paw-paw View Post
dogs are facultative carnivores. That means that they are true carnivores but can survive on a vegetarian diet.
Unlike cats that are obligate carnivores thus cannot survive with a vegetarian diet.
Thanks....so it does basically mean that their bodies are set up to be carnivorous, but they are able to live as omnivores or herbivores....
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Sarah27
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11-03-2009, 06:52 PM
What Paw-Paw said. Just because we feed them veg, grains etc. doesn't mean it's good for them.
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labradork
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11-03-2009, 06:53 PM
so it does basically mean that their bodies are set up to be carnivorous, but they are able to live as omnivores or herbivores....
Omnivore yes. Herbivore not so much.
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Ramble
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11-03-2009, 06:53 PM
Originally Posted by labradork View Post
You are missing the point. You mentioned wolves being carnivorous. Wolves don't pop to the supermarket and purchase carrots and brown rice to chow down on. Humans introduced those elements into their diet.
Nope...not missing the point at all. As I say, Cosmo doesn't go to the supermarket to eat grass and plants and carrots....he helps himself to grass and plants when he's out and has been known to dig up carrots.
Originally Posted by jesterjenn View Post
I'm guessing Jess is technically a carnivore still as she is fed raw
Does she eat any veg though?
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scarter
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11-03-2009, 06:55 PM
Here are some snippets from the "Small Animal Clinical Nutrition" book that might explain a little more:

The metabolic differences between cats and dogs support the classification of cats as strict carnivores, adapted to low carboydrate diet, and dogs as ominivores. If larege amounts of carbohydrates are fet to cats (e.g. more than 40% of the food DMB), signs of maldigestion occur (e.g. diarrhea, bloating and gas) and adverse metaboolic effects can occur (e.g. hyperglycemia and excretion of significant amounts of glucose in urine).
Dogs are omnivorous and have lower protein requirements than cats.
Several researchers have examined the eating habits of wolves, the nearest ancstors of our domestic dogs, and the close relatives such as coyotes. Both are opportunistic predators and scavengers, hunting and eating what is available regionally. Coyotes eat carrion and hunt rodents, other small mammals, birds, amphibians and other species. In addition, they have been reported to consumedropping of herbivrous prey; domestic dogs also will readily consume hebivoure feces. Regional ungulates such as buffalo, deer, elk, moose, wildebeest, antelope and zepra are the natural prey of wolves. Viscera are considered to be the choicest part; therefore, partially digested vegetable material is a normal part of th wolf's diet. Both coyotes and wolves also eat plant matter such as fruits, berries, persimmons, mushrooms and melons. Similarly, dogs are opportunistic eaters and have developed anatomic and physiologic characteristics that permit digestion and usage of a varied diet.
There are lots of references to studies if you're interested.
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Ramble
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11-03-2009, 06:55 PM
Originally Posted by Sarah27 View Post
What Paw-Paw said. Just because we feed them veg, grains etc. doesn't mean it's good for them.
I know too much grain etc would be bad for them, but is some not good for them? That's what I am confused over I suppose, as Cosmo thrives on the food he's on, he's in superb shape (touch wood....) and there is veg and cereal in his diet. If I were to feed a home cooked diet there would also be veg and cereal in it.
Originally Posted by labradork View Post
Omnivore yes. Herbivore not so much.
But dogs can and do do well on a vege diet don't they...
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labradork
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11-03-2009, 06:57 PM
he helps himself to grass and plants when he's out and has been known to dig up carrots.
Absolutely. Dogs are scavengers and eating grass, etc., is actually beneficial for digestive purposes. What I am saying is that we have introduced elements that ancestors of dogs would not have come across naturally -- maize, corn, rice, farmed fruits, etc.
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Ramble
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11-03-2009, 06:57 PM
Originally Posted by scarter View Post
Here are some snippets from the "Small Animal Clinical Nutrition" book that might explain a little more:







There are lots of references to studies if you're interested.
Thanks Scarter that's interesting.
I would like some links if you have them.

I know on here we are always telling people not to feed a diet that is too high in protein....which is from meat...so....bit confusing. I am VERY tired though!
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Sarah27
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11-03-2009, 06:59 PM
Originally Posted by Ramble View Post
I know too much grain etc would be bad for them, but is some not good for them?
I wouldn't say it's a case of bad for them, just a bit pointless because their system doesn't utilise it as efficiently as raw meat. A bit like eating cardboard I suppose. It won't kill you, but you won't get any nutrition from it (unless it's covered in peanut butter ).

As for dogs on vegetarian diet, I won't even go there

Dogs eat grass partly to clean out their system. Have you ever noticed when they've eaten a lot of grass it comes out in their poo? That's because they don't digest it (because it's cellulose and their digestive tract is too short) so it acts like a pipe cleaner for their intestines!

I always used to be pulling strands of grass out of Tilly's bum.
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Ramble
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11-03-2009, 06:59 PM
Originally Posted by labradork View Post
Absolutely. Dogs are scavengers and eating grass, etc., is actually beneficial for digestive purposes. What I am saying is that we have introduced elements that ancestors of dogs would not have come across naturally -- maize, corn, rice, farmed fruits, etc.
BUT that's my point. They choose to eat vegetative matter and plants (including horse poo....look at the posts on ehre about dogs eating horse poo...) so if they choose to eat it, they can't be total carnivores can they?
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