youre gonna me a smartass, but i dont mean to be.
but you have just said it all yourself right there again, and confirmed what i said in my last post.

your:
still applies to my:
the former relates to whether it be 'bess via jake' or 'bess via any dogs'.
the latter to bess giving signals she was uncomfortable with the irregular direct focus on her thru the exercise, signals that were missed, so she did the next logical thing...run off.

all the clues are still in your descriptions, its not likely to do with colour, that's would be an abstract notion, when their is more obvious stuff going on, if you know what it is.

being a rescue dog, its quite probable that such sudden high arm movement (with or without raised objects) directed at her trigger an uncomfortable memory.

i still dont understand

nothing was different the other day in the park, to any other day with the ball launcher, except what ball launcher was used. and of course, bess' behaviour.

also, our first thought was that being a rescue dog, she had maybe been hit or something, but again that doesnt explain why she is ok with jakes ball launcher but not the new one...

High arm movement by a male person when dog is not around other people and other dogs in a game situation could trigger an unwelcome memory....?

[QUOTE=MerlinsMum;2030623]High arm movement by a male person when dog is not around other people and other dogs in a game situation could trigger an unwelcome memory....?[/QUOTE

yes, that is exactly the point....



tbh, im not too sure what you arent understanding lozzi?

what's different is 2 different contexts of using the ball launcher.

obviously i wasnt there, but you have been describing 2 distinct situations yourself.

one was a context in which bess wasnt the direct and specific focus of the exercise, the other was a context in which she was.

as i said earlier, she had already given 2 warnings that something was different and 'wrong' about the situation, and probably more in the way of calming signals that you couldnt see, but you and the owner missed the 'warnings' and therefore did not have the opportunity to pause for a minute to figure out what the problem was so you could stop doing it.
therefore, by turning around to face a dog whilst holding an arm held high carrying an object is most likely the realisation of what Bess was actually warning you she was worried about in the first place.

maybe you cant see the wood for the trees?
as in i think its more likely to do with events of the day and related body language than an obscure notion such as fear of colour?

It`s the raised stick the dog is cowering from, not the colour. Someone got me one and Shamus was horrified. Then Daisy ate it.

That's one way to sort it ~ feel the fear & eat it

Could be the colour - just because dogs don't see colours in the same way we do doesn't mean they can't discriminate between them (to a greater or lesser extent - red and green being the prime example of lesser). People who are 'colour blind' can see differences (different shades/tones of grey apparently). So it may be that she has a problem with red - for whatever reason.

Or it may just have been the timing. We have all, I am sure, seen instances where a slightly anxious dog will suddenly spook about an object that has never bothered them before. A chair gets moved suddenly and the dog spooks, doesn't want to go near the chair. It's not the chair that has bothered him but the sudden movement or noise. When he realises the chair is still the chair he is okay again. But if that chair is moved when the dog is already feeling anxious about something (and it would seem that Bess was definitely feeling anxious that day, for whatever reason) then the anxiety is compounded.

In retrospect (and hindsight is great, isn't it?) it would probably have been better to put the launcher on the floor, paid no attention to it or her and let her work out that it is just a launcher and left it at that. Instead you and your friend - quite naturally - got anxious about her behaviour, which she would have picked up, and would have confirmed to her that there really was something to be worried about!

I wouldn't beat yourselves up about it, but perhaps your friend could leave the launcher lying around at home and see if she reacts to it, pick it up and move it once she is comfortable, use it to throw underarm if she is okay with that and not until she is comfortable around it should it be gradually used with an overarm movement. A bit of desensitisation. If she has enjoyed the game before it shouldn't be long before she is enjoying it again.

i dont understand, because like i have said, nothing was different in this situation to any other time we have used the ball launcher. the attention was not on her more than any time using jakes launcher. when we first met her, she wasnt interested in the ball but since watching jake, she had joined in. now, for months, we have thrown the ball for the two of them, exactly the same way as was done the other day. there is often the attention is on her, jake always gets to the ball first, so sometimes he talks to her and says things to her about getting the ball before jake etc.

he didnt turn around while holding the launcher in the air. he turned around, she was just standing there and then threw the ball in the opposite direction. i doubt it was the body lanuage, coz it was all the same as any other day.

but she doesnt cower from jakes...

[QUOTE=lozzibear;2030780]i dont understand, because like i have said, nothing was different in this situation to any other time we have used the ball launcher. the attention was not on her more than any time using jakes launcher. when we first met her, she wasnt interested in the ball but since watching jake, she had joined in. now, for months, we have thrown the ball for the two of them, exactly the same way as was done the other day. there is often the attention is on her, jake always gets to the ball first, so sometimes he talks to her and says things to her about getting the ball before jake etc.

he didnt turn around while holding the launcher in the air. he turned around, she was just standing there and then threw the ball in the opposite direction. i doubt it was the body lanuage, coz it was all the same as any other day.[/QUOTE

then i dont know what to say, as your description above doesnt tally with your descriptions in your last posts

presumably after he turned around he still had to raise the ball launcher to use it?