Am I right in thinking that the Nuprafeed Stressless is a magnesium supplement of sorts so might be a good place to start?

YEs it is, and you can get it in tablets or liquid, you cannot really OD, and you can "load" to begin with, the lady (I forget her name) is very helpful.

Brilliant!I should have looked in this section before, I should have known there would be alternative practitioners on this forum.I'll tell the rescue lady with the terrified dachshund about magnesium.
I haven't had a need for it for some time but I used to use and had great results with a human travel sickness pill when training highly strung dogs to accept situations and places that made them fearful.It never made them woozy in the least but after a maximum of three occasions of exposure to the situation with the pill they would, undosed, waltz in with their tails wagging.
I never used it for vet visits of course just in case it might interfere with any treatments but it was an incredible and permanent quick fix for nervousness.
No side effects or damage to health either.

Smokeybear do you have any further infomation about 5-htp please? I've googled it but I'm getting very mixed messages! I am going to try Stressless first but am considering this next if it doesn't help. Dose seems to be critical as it seems to be dangerous to give too much (which is worrying), some say give 1-2mg/kg.....others as much as 30-60mg/kg which seems far too much! Do you know the correct dose or a reliable source of info at all? Thanks.

Tryptophan is an amino acid & is the precursor of the neurotransmitter serotonin. The enzyme tryptophan hydroxylase adds a hydroxyl group producing 5-HTP (5-hydroxytryptophan). The enzyme 5-HTP decarboxylase removes a carboxyl group from 5-HTP & the result is 5-HT which is serotonin ~ voila, confused?!!

Brain chemistry is an extremely complex subject & at the forefront of scientific research. IMO it is very dangerous to start using dietary supplements to "mess" with brain chemistry as the effects & side effects are very much only just being discovered. It is no where near as simple as increasing tryptophan via dietary supplements in the hope that this will increase levels of serotonin. Various amino acids & neurotransmitters compete & can cause unexpected effects on mood & behaviour.

These are my notes from my canine behaviour course on tryptophan:

"TRYPTOPHAN

This essential amino acid has a role in aggression and depression. It is the precursor of serotonin (as tyrosine is the precursor of dopamine and noradrenaline). Serotonin also struggles to compete with other amino acids and comes quite low down on the scale. It competes with other amino acids that are associated with cereals and grains, e.g. leucine & phenylamine ~ grains
Valine, leucine & isoleucine ~ soya

All of these have priority over tryptophan.

To compensate for the amino acids associated with cereals and grains, insulin is secreted. The result is that tryptophan levels rise as it no longer needs to compete with other amino acids and serotonin levels drop ~ too much tryptophan leads to lower serotonin (nobody understood this bit but it is complex and we don’t need it for the exam so we were told to just accept it!). Outcome is that an imbalance of tryptophan affects serotonin levels and hence affects depression.

Tryptophan is implicated in stereotypies so diet can affect stereotypical behaviours.

Tyrosine and tryptophan compete ~ usually tyrosine has the competitive edge, so we need to be aware of the possible affects of a largely cereal-based diet in behaviour."

As you can see I got a bit lost & confused at one stage! If you want to know a bit more I would have a look at this article:
http://www.livestrong.com/article/27...nd-depression/

Or you can try googling tryptophan ~ but as I've said, unless you have a thorough knowledge of how the brain works & a degree in chemistry & you are a qualified dietician, I would be very wary of using supplements in this way!

5HTP is an OTC supplement and you will find any contra indications (if any) clearly delineated on the product website.

Many years ago, 5HTP was panned due to a particular type of tryptophan which was used.

We must remember that L Tryptophan is a NATURALLY OCCURRING SUBSTANCE in many foods and as for ODing on it, perhaps you might point me to the source of those who find danger in its use.

NOTHING IN LIFE IS RISK FREE and you can OD on WATER and OXYGEN!

A regular daily supplement is at worst not going to do anything to your dog, at best assist in it.

There are various other things to consider with tryptophan but in the dosage you would be using in your dog, there is nothing to worry about.

But you should do what you feel comfortable with.

...btw ,5htp is half price at holland and barrats this week

I just wanted to discuss this point and I thought it would be better to bring up my old thread in this topic and there's already a lot of useful information on here relating to 5-htp.

I asked my vet about it who did some research and was sent some scientific papers by a well known veterinary behaviourist. It was very interesting. She hasn't had time to read it all fully as she was very busy and going on holiday, but heres what she found.

"Sorry for the delay - we have been swamped with emergencies - I have not had time to read all the papers but the general gist is that there is little clinical evidence on its use.
*
In the late 1980's as you are probably aware there was an outbreak of eosinophilia-myalgia syndrome associated with use of tryptophan products in people . The supplements were subsequently banned for human use .* The ban was lifted and the suplements are now available for use in people but at a much lower dose rate.
*
The adverse effects were blamed on a manufacturing problem with one specific type of supplement . This has however I believe been disputed and there are concerns that the problems seen were related to the tryptophan.
*
Tryptophan is a precursor for both seratonin (good) or kynurenine - kynurenine can then be metabolised to products that are neuro-toxic . This pathway has been seen in some degenerative neurological diseases.
The enzymes which convert tryptophan to kynurenine is activated by cortisol and this means that in stressed animals they are more likely to produce this unwanted and potentially toxic metabolite rather than to serotonin.
*
Basically - we just don't know but from what I understand I would be concerned about using them in Cain (I would not be happy to use them in my own dogs) - now this may mean that we miss out on something that may be helpful to Cain but given how hard you are working with him I do not feel that the cost-benefit analysis based on the limited information I have justifies the use for Cain."

The bit about kynurenine was interesting, especially how stressed dogs are less likely to turn the tryptophan into serotonin. Just wondered what those of you with experience of it thought, I've not heard of kynurenine before...

No experience & a bit science blinded but interesting nevertheless.
I don't give Tilly anything anymore, since we were trained by the behavourist (the humans, not Tilly) she has become a much more calm relaxed dog indoors & is not anxious at all & neither am I

Did the Stress-Less have any affect on Cain or nothing noticable - sounds interesting in theory

I only tried the one bottle which lasted almost the month then stopped. I was hopeful it might help but I did not notice any change in his behaviour when he was on/off of it. Pity as it does seem to have had great results for some dogs, just sadly not Cain.