Please explain why that is not the case with my BCs ? [ four of them ] ? They are each very different from each other even though of the same breed and as it happens no they don`t do pack mentality whether at home or not The nearest they get to it, [ and the only `group` thing that they do ], is when one barks they all bark, however four of my six dogs being deaf, they only get the vibration of it, they can`t hear that another dog is barking so its nothing to do with pack but each reacting to the same physical stimulus of the vibration they each feel at the time.



More than some, not as much as the rest.



My defensiveness is on behalf of the people you seem to find need to be derogatory toward, perhaps you don`t realise that`s how you come across so I`m pointing it out. You come across as rude, sarcastic, patronising, and as though you think you are above everyone else.



See above



Its about how you are toward people. Have a different viewpoint by all means, everyone has that right, but you don`t have the right to be rude and patronising to people in the way you speak, [ type ], at them.



Then kindly reserve it for them, as the way you use it here comes across as patronising.



Unfair in your opinion perhaps however there are other opinions allowed than just yours. Perhaps you could just apologise to those who were offended ?



I did`nt think they were a subject of mirth to you, I got the impressions you were more a case of jealous of them.



Please tell me any dog which would like to be hit or zapped ?
None ?
Didn`t think so, therefore they are not what a dog requires, what they do require is understanding and for humans to stop thinking its a dogs fault for not understanding what we convey. If a dog does`nt `get it`, that`s down to us miscommunicating to them, that`s our failing, not the dogs, therefore the dog should not be subjected to pain or fear because of us getting something wrong.





You work them, so its what they do, then when they react at a time you don`t require them to go off chasing or killing, you punish them with violence for doing what they are otherwise supposed to do. Nice....not !



Yes



Why is it that people who can`t understand how to train without violence are fixated on believing that those of us who manage without it are `one true way`ers` ?
There are many different ways to train without violence or intimidation, but presumably as you don`t know how to not use violence you don`t realise its not `one method` involved in positive training.



If your best is thinking hitting is acceptable then that does`nt really say much about your `best` I`m afraid



Its how you write it, the way you word things, the patronising attitude, the arrogance, and that is borne up by the fact that you can`t see its what you do.
Hopefully this will cause you to read back through your posts and think about what you could have put differently, to drop the `dearie` type stuff, at least in the way you have used it thus far, and to apologise to those who have been on the receiving end of you being, [ or coming across as ], patronising toward them.

If you were given a slap or a zap for each time you have been rude, how many would you have taken to either learn and understand completely what you were doing wrong or to react with a punch ?
Now think about it from a dogs point of view - imagine you are the dog and you can`t understand what you`ve done `wrong` then you get a clip round the head or a zap for it without even knowing what `it` is.....

I know people are never going to agree with me and I accept that. I wouldn't want to use one if I had to repetedly shock the dog to get results.

I had tried the cani collar, halti, gental leader and even the gencon but after a about a week he used to pull against them. I tried distracting him with food and tried the clicker. I used that with great success to get him to let me look at his teeth.
None of these worked.
I really believe if he were to get to a sheep he would kill it. His eyes used to change when he saw them.
Now he never wears the collar as he is 100% around them even these last few weeks when there have been lots of lambs running around.

I believe smacking dogs or otherwise using violence towards them is wrong. I believe the proper use of an e-collar as a disciplinary aid is acceptable.

And if the collar didn`t cause pain it wouldn`t work - if you weren`t relying on a response to pain you`d use another method of `getting the dog`s attention` - like a whistle.

I believe it works the same way a whistle works, but it's useful for when a dog won't respond to the distant sound of a whistle/rattle bottle etc. I see it as a 'nudge from a distance', rather than inflicting pain, discomfort or fear. I think proper training with an e-collar is preferable to never being allowed off-lead.