Changing position is changing your behaviour!

Adam

Maybe I missed it, but Adam - would you care to answer the original question?

Are they ever suitable for pet/relatively inexperienced dog owners - when purchased online (i.e. without 1 to 1 training by a 'pro'?)

Explain to me....if a dog is pulling (end of the lead) how do you apply a weaker correction? (so as not to hurt the dog of course)

OK, I know you are finding this hard to grasp but a change of position is just a change of position.

Your theory is flawed.

A dog is running and you call his name, he turns his head but carries on running. Has he changed his behaviour?

Same dog running, you call his name he turns and runs back to you. Has he changed his behaviour?

I know, its just heartbreaking to see how she flinches, and she is already sitting so she is getting punished just to show the point for the vid - and that IS deff abuse - hitting a dog and causing it to cower to prove a point on a video

But of course the guy JUST DOES NOT SEE what is going on with his dog - neither do many people watching that vid - they see a well trained dog

How many thousands of years have humans lived with dogs?
How amazing are they at understanding our emotions?
How rubbish are we at understanding there? - and we have the cheek to call ourselves the higher species - makes me really sad to be the same species as some of these people

I've heard just about every excuse under the sun for using equipment that imposes physical pain and discomfort on an animal from 'life saving' to 'quickest way to train' to 'most cost effective', 'only way to have offlead', 'only way to avoid a truck that suddenly appears in a field in the middle of nowhere', yadda, yadda, yadda.

I find it disgusting that anyone can ever believe it justifiable to deliberately inflict pain or even discomfort on an animal (any animal) that we have chosen to live with us (note, animals have no choice in the matter) and then try to robotise said animal to suit our whims and fancies.

Dogs, bless 'em, are so easily guided into how we want them to behave in a way where integration into our lives is enjoyable without causing them distress so how on Earth can it ever be justifiable to cause them pain and/or discomfort whether by an experienced trainer or simply a pet owner who (supposedly) wants a loving companion?

Some peoples' definition of loving certainly differs from my own

Don't worry I wasn't fooled. What I was trying to say was maybe his route would have been quicker as in dog does what it is told but not got the same end result that the dog loves what they are doing.

It is very sad that some so called trainers have to resort to cruel methods to get the end results in my opinion

Lovely sounding trainer
and imo with something like agility you wouldnt get anywhere training with punishments because your dog has to trust you to do as you ask, they have to have confidence that what you are asking is safe

Tell me about it. It's absolutely disgusting.

I actually went to a traditional training class with Rupert for a couple of years. It was the only class that would have us and they let me use the clicker and work at Ruperts pace. The difference between Rupert, the other 2 positively trained dogs and the traditionally trained dogs was really clear to me. Rupe wasn't the most obedient but he was one of the happiest, one of the most confident in trying new things and his personality just shone through the whole time. The other positively trained dogs were far more obedient but had the same confidence. The traditionally trained ones were offering a lot of calming signals, hesitant at trying new things, and just didn't seem anywhere near as happy while working. And this was far from a harsh class as classes go.

1 If you want to post a picture of me and/or use my name on this board you should a) ask my permission b) get your facts right c) and verify that both human and dog in the picture are connected.......

Really Adam, you undermine your own credibility by trying to undermine others.

But as Oscar Wilde once said, there is only one thing worse than being talked about and that is not being talked about and as I am a relentlessly fascinating person I would expect to be the centre of attention and discussion at all times!