Rattlesnakes rattle, and with a dogs sense of smell and hearing being much more keen than our own, there is no doubt that in the case of the rattler, they KNOW its there and seek it out. Now, smaller silent snakes like copperheads, I buy being stepped on and not seen, but a dog is not likely to die from a copperhead bite.

I see a lot of snakebites in my line of work. 8 this past week. Of those 8, 2 were on the foot, the rest were on the muzzle, indicating the dog was investigating the snake when it got bit. I'd say just ballparking it of the snakebites we see, its probably about 70-75% facial bites to 25-30% bites to the paw. Facial bites are more dangerous as the area is highly vascular and the dog is envenomated faster. A bite to the tongue is tantamount to a an intervenous injection of snake poison.

Ergo, accidental snakebites are less common and less lethal than investigation related snakebites, which are the ones being trained for in snake aversion training.

I hope you meant to put a "not" in there before the "let" !

Thank you muttz for such an informative post. From what you have told us, along with Weim and Heldengebroed, there is now no doubt in my mind that if I lived in a part of the States where very dangerous snakes like rattlers lived, I would have my dog trained by whatever means necessary to avoid them like the plague ! With an e-collar being most likely near or at the top of the list, as my dog has a very high prey drive.

I think it is so easy for many of us to sit at our computers here in little safe old England where we really don't have any truly venomous creatures and pontificate about how horrible e-collars are, and how we would never use them. I am sure if some of the antis had lost a dog, despite all the care they took of never letting them off lead, muzzling them, never putting them in the back yard where there could be snakes, etc. etc., they would use whatever means necessary to ensure that the next one never wanted ever ever ever to go within a million miles of a snake!

Having once been stupid enough to sit down on an electric fence that was strung over a stile (the fence was wired up to the mains, NOT a battery operated one, so I was shot in the air by the force !!) if it is anywhere near as painful as that, then no wonder Daddy did a massive circle around where Cesar had set up the snake!

These e-collars ARE operated by a battery, so I assume that even on the highest setting, it is not going to be any worse than touching an ordinary battery operated electric fence. And they are not that bad, the guys at the livery stables where I kept my horse would vie with each other to see who could hold onto the electric fence the longest!!

If I lived in an area where there was a remote possibility that any poisonous snakes where inhabiting , I would not leave me dogs outside for the night... they would be brought inside..

weim1 , this is not aimed at you personally, and I am sorry for your loss...but just as a scenario.. the sad tale Heldengebroed quoted, no amount of training with a shock collar would help in that situation.

It really does not matter how people refer to the stimulus of the shock collar, they cam call it tickled with a feather if they like, the point is ... they are a barbaric form of correction... and give of a shock (or whatever the term you use) to correct the dog...


And if anyone is stupid enough to stick their tongue again the prongs of a battery , then I am sure they will tell you it HURTS

A battery operated electric fence will give off the same effect as one plugged into the mains..

Otherwise there is no point to them,... they are MEANT to shock the horse into keeping away from it.

You cant go round wiring up to the mains with a higher voltage.. ...you would be in danger of killing anyone touching it

There is legalisation as to the voltage used , be it mains or battery

Not fair !! Sorry Tassle, that one's lost on me ! To put it more gently then, I don't think it would be very fair on my dog if - knowing what I know now about how dangerous snakes are in some parts of the USA, thanks to Weim etc (sorry guys, I have forgotten your names !) - to emigrate to the a snakey part of the States knowing that he has a very high prey drive, and not take any steps necessary to train him to leave snakes well alone ! I am not sure "fair" comes into it.

I so agree about what you say about e-collars not being the only way. The issue here though is the seriousness of the situation that CM had with Daddy and I believe some of the other pitbulls in his pack, eg Popeye. We must assume that he knows his own dogs, knows what will work and will not work. He took the steps he needed to take to ensure that Daddy and friends NEVER wanted to go anywhere near snakes ever again. We now know, despite what some members have claimed on here, that far from never taking his dogs out for exercise, Cesar does indeed take his dogs out into the countryside of Southern California, where very dangerous snakes such as rattlers exist. After what happened to his doggy friend, Rocco, he wanted to make absolutely sure that his own beloved dogs didn't go the same way.

I just cannot see what is wrong here. What would have been wrong is for CM, knowing his dogs as he does but ignoring this knowledge, to continue to take them walkies in a snake infested area without doing everything in his power to stop them playing with snakes ! I will grant that there MAY have been less severe measures to use, but would these have worked within 10 minutes? With a dog like a pit, a tenacious and very focussed breed who when they get an idea in their head will follow it through come what may?

I doubt it.

Agreed Stumpy. Adders are not a sufficient threat to dogs here IMO to justify the use of an e-collar.

Had I lost a dog though to anaphylactic shock through an adder bite, I may think differently, but that is such a rare occurrence, I think I would prefer to use another training method. Adders are sadly quite rare in this country also, so I don't think they are much of a risk anyway.

I wouldn't say a real danger, Mish, they are pretty rare, even in those areas where the like to live, like heathland and sand dunes. And it is not always easy to keep a look out for them. When I am walking my dog, I am not scouring the undergrowth 100% of the time looking for anything dangerous that might come out and bite him ! In addition, we do an awful lot of mountain biking with Tai running alongside off lead, so it is just not good enough I don't think to say "keep a look out for them". This is just unviable in the real world.

No of course I haven't, but we have been told by our friends from America - Weim, I think it was!

I agree with the last of your post, no offence was meant, I was just trying to get the seriousness of snake bite in the States across ! I think you will find our American friends will be in support of this.

I apologise sincerely for any offence caused though, none was meant. Having lost many dogs myself of course, my last beloved one in tragic circumstances, I would never take the death of anyone's beloved pet lightly.