I disagree on that I do think you can totally understand something without experiencing it, I don't think you have to directly experience something to have a total understanding of it.

I do wonder if it is actually YOU who prefers working your collies rather than doing agility and obedience. Sometimes our perception colours the way we see things.

Hmm, who knows? I certainly get a kick out of seeing a dog doing what it was bred to do, and neither obedience nor agility gave me the buzz that working my dog on sheep does. But I also do think my dogs (the collies) show far more enjoyment from working sheep than doing a sport. It shows in their whole mannerism and how keen they are to get out and do it again. Maybe it is all in my mind, but I don't think so.

I think if we enjoy doing something with our dogs, it shows in the way that we speak to them and handle them, it shows in our body language and it probably shows in the way we smell. The hapier we are, the more praise we give, the more our dogs will enjoy being around us and doing the activity they are doing at the time, the one the handler is enjoying.
I enjoy watching Cosmo swim, so when he does it, I laugh and joke and encourage him...therefore he probably learnt from being very young that it was a great thing to do, not only because it is part of his breeding but also because of the response it gets...

I'm not so sure....

Siren adores agility (I have not done too much because of setting up the equiptment etc.) I encourage her in everything she does but as much as I am trgying with HtM and obedience I cannot get the same enthusaim from her without a lot of winding up!

I also have a friend with a BC who does agility - she finds the same thing in reverse - she adores the agility but the dog doesnt have so much enthusaism for it.

As much as I would like to believe I can fully undersatnd something with without experienceing it - I don;t think I can (maybe that is just my imagination or lack of ) I have a vague undersatnding of the teaching methods - but I cannot know what it is like to work a dog in that situation and that to me is a big difference. Talking to a woman who has trained her assitance dog was a revalation - but I will never (I hope) know how it feels to depend on a dog that much.

I am also with kirsty in feeling that there is nothing more fantastic than watching a dog do what it was bred to do - when they are truely working and fulfilling that instinct I don't think much can come close - I am not for a second saying they don;t get enjoyment from agility, ob, long walks running on the beach etc - maybe it is more satisfaction than enjoyment..............or maybe its just me....

Can you tell I am a bit dopey this afternoon!! Sorry

great post.. I agree with it.. my dogs enjoy diff stuff...some more some less... my enthusiasim makes no diff...
im dopey too this afternoon... so Im really glad you have typed out your post for me to agree with

I agree with you Tassle. Yes, I am enthusiastic about sheep herding, but to be honest the dog is working fairly independently when on sheep and certainly isn't watching it's handler for signs of that enjoyment - it is totally focused on the job in hand. Most working collies aren't interested in whether you praise or fuss the dog when he is working, or when he has finished - he just wants to herd, herd, herd - and that is the reward for him.

I am not really explaining myself very well unfortunately - I am tired too - but I do feel a collie working sheep is a whole different thing to a collie doing agility. No snobbery or feelings of superiority at all, it is just that collies have been bred for generations to work sheep and they adore doing that, they are hard wired to do that.

no matter how enthusiastic I am about obed.... vinnie just sits on his fat ar*e stareing at me ....waiting on the clicker coming out

Im going to have to combine the two....

Alfie definitely has his own preference. He adores agility, recognises the place and is so excited to get there. Interestingly, he's so focused on his agility that he doesn't bother one bit about the other dogs running around, while recalls in obedience make him go mad. He likes his obedience, don't get me wrong, and he loves to learn new things but he just seems to live to do agility.

As I doubt he would ever be much good with sheep, I wonder if agility to him has the same effect that herding does to some other collies. I can almost 100% guarantee you that Alf, being the dog that he is, would pick agility over herding.

It could also be to do with the fact that Moobli, your BCs are all from herding lines I think? So it really is bred into them very recently.

Are there any aspects of 'working' a dog that you feel you totally understand without having experienced it?

If so, would you consider spending some time alongside someone who does work their dog in that discipline to see whether you were correct in your original assumption?

You seem like an open minded person Ramble. It might be interesting to do that.

I've been around people working sheep (and herding cows when I think about it), I have been around people training and working with assistance dogs...not quite sure what you mean.
I am an open minded person (most of the time) but I'm not sure what you're getting at here. I only suggested that perhaps Kirstys dogs picked up on her enjoyment of it which is more than possible. They will also be praised for doing it as well, plus it is the only life they know. I have no doubt that they enjoy it, they wouldn't do it if they didn't, but at points there can be an element of 'dogs are best doing what they were bred to do' and actually, that isn't always the case at all.
I agree with what others have said, dogs do also show preferences, even within a breed, but they will also respond to the activities the handler enjoys the most. Example..all my dogs love dancing with me in the kitchen when no one else is in....because we have fun and they pick up on my enjoyment (it isn't HTm by the way...just a bit of dancing in the kitchen!!!!) It isn't in any of their breeding...but they love it!!!!!! Would my old BC have preferred dancing in the kitchen oherding in a field...definitely the former!!!! He was from farm stock...