How will this particular law be enforced??? If you were to see a docked dog-are you supposed to ask the owners name & address to they can be reported??? I dont think so cause if a complete stranger wanted my personal details-i would be very rude to them cause i am under no legal obligation to give them it! Only the Police are allowed access to our details and animal welfare is nothing to do with them.

I just see this law as something which was rushed through with very little thought.

And for the record-im in favour of docking.

Anything like this is difficult to enforce Steve. The thing is though, dogs won't be allowed in the show ring if they have been docked, which means people will start to get used to seeing uindocked dogs, breeders will stop docking etc etc, it will, I think, have a snowball effect over time. :smt002
Yep there are loopholes etc, laws are never perfect immediately...but it's a step in the right direction....

It was comparable with Ailsa's comments on working dogs not being trained in a nice manner, I DID say that their training was minimal, obedience, agility etc dogs are trained relentlessly doing things which are totally against everything they were bred for, and I have witnessed terrified dogs.

The way in which dogs have been manipulated to suit these purposes is as much as disgrace to me, than you seem to think docking is.
Dawn.

This thread is about docking

Are dogs docked to do agility ?
Are dogs docked to do obedience ?
Are dogs docked to do flyball ?

Perhaps you could start a separate thread on what you consider to be `disgraceful manipulation` with regards to training for these activities

Thanks for the replys to my questions. I don't trust any research on docking as no research will ever be unbiased. The person undertaking the research will always have a point to prove and therefore biased to the researchers point of view. Any research worth it's salt is unbiased, if it's not it's not valid. I prefer to trust my own eyes to for an opinion on this type of subject

It's now clear to me that the majority of anti dockers (at least the two that bothered to reply ) have never seen working dogs work, but only ever heard stories etc. This is the problem I have with the whole docking thing. Yes people are entitled to their opinion, but if you don't actually know anything on the subject in question - how can that opinion hold any weight. For example I could tell you how to raise your kids, I've heard and seen many things but at the end of the day would you really value my opinion - I doubt it as it'd be like teaching your Granma how to suck eggs. My opinion to you would hold no weight as I'd have no experience in the subject - and rightly so.

The only way to truly know, is to do and that's the major difference between a lot of pro/anti dockers.

Banding a pups tail brings no visible distress to the animal - it's much the same as what farmers do to lambs. I've yet to hear any distress coming from a pup whilst having it's tail banded. Cutting the dogs tail off with a pair of scissors is different, I can fully understand why that should be outlawed.

The first time I saw a pups tail banded was the day I changed from pro docker to anti docker - the reason I was against it was I assumed it was painful. That day I had the proof in front of my eyes, it was clear it wasn't painful.

Eating organically would be wonderful, but I can't see that happening worldwide. I'm not sure if we have the resources to be able to sustain it (or the money for many). Sad I know. So for me hunting is another way of eating more humanely, the animals are happy, living free and die a quick death much as I hope an organically rasied animal would.

Just for the record I think the ban is a good thing in some respects as I do agree that docking for cosmetic reasons is wrong. It's juat a shame that the people pushing it through have no idea about gundogs and have rushed and helped my dream of dual purpose gundogs go down the pan.

And finally, it has been nice to have a discussion and for people not to become offensive - lets hope it continues.

And that, we can all agree on - here here :smt023

Couldn't agree more here Rips, I know we wil never agree on this, but that doesn't mean I don't read your posts with interest. :smt002

As for people with no children giving advice on how to raise my son, I have no problem with that to be honest, I can listen to it and at times it's good to see things with 'fresh' eyes. :smt001

There are some things in life you just don't need to see to know that you disagree with them Rips.
I disagree with hunting. I've seen images on TV, I've read about it and I know some very pro hunters. I don't need to go on a shoot.
I know (please don't take this the wrong way as I know they are different things, I'm just trying to think of an example here :smt002 forgive me i'm tired...), that if I chopped my arm off it would hurt, so I try to avoid doing it...I don't need to see it to know it. I know that if I smacked my son, it would hurt him, I don't need to do it to know it (yep I'm TOTALLY anti smacking too as you've probably guessed would be the case :smt002 ). I don't need to see things to know that I disagree with them and in all honesty, I don't want to see things I disagree with. I want to stop them happening, not watch them. :smt002

This thread is now coming to a close for me I think as I've made my points and i've read everyone else's with interest.
It has been an absolute pleasure to do so. Pats on the back for all of you guys...this has to be an interesting and informative thread for anyone to read, regardless of which side of the fence they are on (or even if they are on it!):smt002
:smt058

I think the difference in some of the examples given here are that you've experienced something similar to the example to know that smacking or cutting your arm off would hurt! ( ) What I mean you need to have something to compare it to. With docking nothing that you can experience in life to give you a true idea. Which is why i believe it's necessary to actually see it to understand it.

And yes I have to agree well done to all of us for keeping it friendly!

Again see Rambles post re: how "working" dogs are "trained" as per my reply!

Not docked in order to do these "sports" but have definately been altered in type and temperament to fit the purpose!
Daw

Well I would glady take anyone out shooting with me if they would like to come, driven or rough shooting. Then they can make an informed opinion of whether docking is necessary in these dogs, based on what they find.
Dawn.