Tupac
Quick fixes (that last) are not only appropriate but nessaccary in some cases. Even if not needed isn't it better to get the dog over something fast so it has a better life than wait for ages to achieve the same result.
Re cat, that's good but these people's animals didn't get on they now do!
Wilbar
I agree re equipment, see gsd post for example were all gear failed but e collar worked.
Spray collas.
A, aren't as adjustable as e colalrs
B, are effected by speed the dog's moving and how windy it is.
E collars have lots of levels so you never startle the dog.
Cats.
They use an invisible fence, for table stuff they use a zone thing (basically same princple).
I'm pleased you've had success with your approach to cats. But I've found a dog who is very high drive with a history of chasing will not respond.
Frozen watchfulness
I get excatly the same body language when greeted weather I've used an e collar or 100% pr. Even if I change the training and go from 00% one week to e collar the next the following week the dog still greets with same body language.
Timing
Dog knows it's done the right thing because the sensation stops when it does the right thing! the effect is the same as using a clicker as a marker signal. The repitition means the dog knows it's done the right thing because the sensation only stops when it moves away from sheep not when it flicks an ear ect.
Shona
The majority of e collar dogs had had previouse traners which tried and failed, others had previoue trainrs that didn't even try (malamute was the latter gsd the former).
With these dogs I assessed them tried the pr approach and then opted for e collar as the -best appro-ach. I was proved right.
I agree re timescale.
E collars with owners
I olylet them use it if there timing is good and they've ahd extensive instruction in how to. I don't see the difference in letting them use an e collar and a lead, both can be abusive, both aren't when used properly.
Emma
As someone with regular practical experience with the tool I believe they do not cause pain.
Malamute
Was bored because he couldn't exercised enough, this was because they couldn't let him off around sheep! The e collar has dealt with both the cause and symptom.
He is reliable around sheep.
Lead to start (to show what to do) then off lead.
Breed
Once again a pointless discussion if they have a dog they wish to keep, they all ready knew his breed was the problem! By enabling them to handle him they can now keep their dog. Once again I'll repeat many dogs are ideal for a circumstance except for..... and if you can solve it with training why not?
Other methods
Yes I will try other methods first
A. If a good trainer hasn't tried them before
B. If I think they will work in the circumstance.
To do otherwise is silly.
Emma, you keep saying I'm not answering. I feel I am (just not to your satisfaction) please bullet point/use wilbars approach to make your questions crystal clear. This is not a dig! just a request.
Wysiwyg
The people who are anti e collar are financially and emotionally invested in not using them. To use an example.
8 months ago I worked with a dog aggrssive shep. He was six and had 3 different one to one trainers/behaviourists involved and had also been going to a class for years.
None had worked, but his owner had spent £100s on him to no avail. Those trainers had made moey out of him despite not getting a result.
I did two sessions (with an e collar) and had him running loose and socilising nicely by the end. I charged £50 by using the e collar I got a quick long term result but charged less than any of the other trainers. Some of these trainers were members of a prominent organisation, they all made a living training dogs. If a dog can be successfully resolved in a short period of time with an e collar (a tool their orgaisation doesn't allow) they will be anti as it will loose them business.
Even if they could use an e collar they may not want too as they were charging by the hour so the longer the better.
This is obviously a controversial statement but I have to say I see this again and again.
Adam