Oh phew, there you are 1cutedog.....I was too busy typing and you snuck in before me!!

So, that is two of us who at the moment have to rely on someone being home or in charge of our dogs. (I do hope that you feel a little better now......horrible being poorly on your own, dogs are not good at making cups of tea or coffee).

We now have our eyes firmly fixed on Cardaph Sorry Cardaph.......and no, I haven't seen that magic potion for the over forties for years now, so you will have to rely on this thread's magic bottle!

I am sorry, but just had to post again because I have been sitting outside watching the bats with a REAL drink, and thinking about Jimmi and his SA.

Now something has just become crystal clear.........he is NOT a one man dog, so his attachment to me is a mere screen for the real problem. When he was in the kennels, he was attached to his carers and was worried about leaving them. Here he is attached to me because I am the most constant human in the household, but he is happy to transfer that attachment to husband - or even a complete stranger as happened the other week, as long as there is SOMEONE there to hold his paw. He is unsure and unsettled, yes, and he does watch and wait for my return when I am out........but I have absolutely no doubt that given a few days or so without me he would simply transfer his affections to whoever offered the most benefits.

This is an older dog, at least 10, so the fact that he will make himself at home anywhere and with anyone shows him to be an opportunist with a cupboard love attitude ( ) rather than a dog who forms true attachments. Where is his pining for his previous owners? He was clearly not mistreated, and is well used to all the comforts of home.

In which case, his problem lies purely in being alone and has nothing to do with me or husband. This could be even harder to crack than I first thought, and the only way forward is to continue with the leaving for a minute or two at a time - absolutely nothing else will work with Jimmi, and I am not even sure that this will but we will keep at it.

Just been having a quick scan through this thread from the beginning. Oh I am a lousy owner. Neither wonder Lana is getting worse instead of better. I'd forgotten all about the NILIF and about distancing myself from Lana.

Where is the distance, where is the making her work for things. Neither wonder she is getting worse now instead of better. I had started off well with the NILIF or at least my watered down softies version of it. Yes I still get her to sit before giving her meals. She sits whilst getting her harness on, but making her sit while I open the door is out the window, the same at the door down stairs.

Because she was getting so upset when I was out I have been letting her sleep on my bed. She's a joy to sleep with unlike my last dog. She lies stretched out at the side of me with her head on my arm which I then wrap around her and then put my other arm around her. She puts her head on my pillow right next to my face and happily sleeps there all night. I doubt this can be called distancing myself

Today we had another day of Lana not doing as she was asked/told, not coming back when called in the park, not sitting in the park to get her harness on, not giving me the ball and I suddenly realised she has been getting worse over the last week or so. And who's fault is it, only this softies fault

I must be harder, I must be tougher Not that I could ever be really hard or tough but I must stop being such a soft touch with her because she does take advantage and possibly her anxiety gets worse as she doesn't know where she stands.

bitkin, your last post there about Jimmi, to be honest I can see Lana in him. I sometimes think Lana would go happily with someone else if she got her cuddles and food and wouldn't really miss me. There's something so 'afloof' about her at times.

When we're at my dads she will sit on my dads feet. If my sister in law is there, she will sit happily on her knee getting cuddled and couldn't care less about me. She's the same when anyone else is there to give her lots of cuddles. Like you I think as long as she was getting her walks, fed and cuddles it doesn't really have to be me.

When the kennel people brought her to me in the morning I was amazed at how quickly she settled in, thinking at the time that that was a good thing but I've often thought over the last few months that she would be happy anywhere and would be happier if she was somewhere where she could stay outside all day playing with other dogs. If she got a place like that I doubt she would give me a second thought.

Stop it 1cutedog.........hold it right there, this minute.

Why on earth should you stop cuddling Lana at night if that is what you want to do? Distancing yourself is no fun is it, and what do we have dogs as pets for if not to enjoy interacting with them? It's true that Jimmi and Lana may be two of a kind, but should that stop us from loving them and enjoying being with them - I think not.

The obedience thing is a different matter, and surely that can be worked on in the normal way with treats and lots of repetition, and it can still be FUN. Don't get confused and upset about this because in my humble opinion you can do everything you want to with Lana, including having her on your bed, whilst still ending up with an obedient dog. Just keep at it training wise re the recall etc., and enjoy it no matter what happens. It is all part of the bonding process, which by the sound of it is about as tenuous in Lana's case as it is with Jimmi!!!!

I really do think from what you have written that both Lana and Jimmi are very alike - but I am also convinced that you have done absolutely nothing wrong and should not blame yourself. Being hard and tough may only confuse Lana even more, because being consistent is so important. You are who you are, a loving owner whose dog wants to snuggle up to at night..........Jimmi would do the same given half a chance, as it is he comes in after his breakfast in the morning. Don't change yourself 1cutedog - just keep on with those training sessions re obedience.

No I couldn't be distant if I tried. I will have to watch I don't get too lax because I had noticed a difference in her before when getting her to sit before going out the door and little things like that. If I let them go then everything goes and she just takes a loan of me. That's really all I mean by hard and tough.

When I make things fun she is much happier, she does really like to please and if I become too firm she doesn't like it. She's such a funny mixture, sometimes so aloof and yet she loves her cuddles which she doesn't get enough of during the day as I am often busy so letting her come on my bed at night is ideal as I cuddle her and talk to her and just have some 'us' time together.

I am going to see about getting the livingroom carpeted and then I can play games with her in the house, tuggy games or even just wrestling games or whatever. I'm going to put the carpet up the skirting as well so she can play with her toys, the ones with the treats in that roll about. She hasn't been able to play with them since I came here as they make far too much noise and tuggy games are out as she slides on the floorboards.

I might take her to training, if I find a good place, not that she especially needs it because if I'm consistent she's really quite good, but I think she would enjoy it and it should be fun. Not taking her to the local one. I've seen people coming out of there, yanking the dog up and to the side saying heel and there will be none of that from me.

I think with not feeling so well the last week it's not been a good week for Lana. It's been more boring for her as she had shorter walks and I was a bit narky with her at times which I know I shouldn't have been but was feeling so ill I couldn't seem to help it. Have heard about a new walk up beside a loch so going to take her there tomorrow.

It will be interesting to see how she is with the dog sitters on Friday. I'm not sure if I'm looking forward to it or not I hope she does okay and then I could make it a weekly or twice weekly thing so that if ever an emergency cropped up she would have somewhere to go. With Lana being young I can at least be optimistic that she will get better with age about being left alone.

The DAP diffuser I got seems to have done nothing at all for Lana. Do you think the drops have helped Jimmi at all? Do you still use them?

Well girls we've been and the upshot of it is that Bessie does NOT have separation anxiety! She asked loads of questions about how she reacted in different situations and the conclusion was Bessie just doesn't like being on her own not that she is pining for us for leaving her. She hasn't learned to be happy in her own company. The barking and howling while we are away is her way of protesting because she hasn't got anyone to keep her entertained. I have forgotton a lot of what she said but she is sending us a full report of what we discussed.
She reckons we can cure this situation within about 6-8 weeks following her suggestions.
She also said that is why the dap and desensitising exercises we have been doing just haven't worked which was a bit of a relief for us because we thought we just hadn't been doing them right.
The hardest thing we have to do is exclude her from the bedroom by way of a baby gate I'm going to find that so hard to do. We have to stop giving her attention every time she wants it and make her earn it.
Oh and Bitkin the reason she is quiet in the car is because there is just more stimulus around her - people walking about and other cars coming and going.
Leaving signals have to be mixed up in other words don't follow exactly the same routine each time.
More mental stimulation eg hiding treats in boxes empty milk cartons , scattering food around the garden so she has to search it out.
Walking in busy areas as opposed to quiet places.
She also advised joining an agility class
We have to get two new toys to give at our discretion and keep out of sight at other times.
We were given some hand outs to read and a booklet written by her.
Very nice lady have to say and she thought Bessie was lovely and a credit to us - that made me feel I wasn't such a hopeless dog owner! She reckons she's super intelligent and cottons on to what we do very quickly.

So now our work begins fingers crossed we can at last look forward to some kind of imrovement!

Oh well done Cardaph.........those words of encouragement about how you are doing with Bessie must have done you the world of good.

Now then, isn't it interesting because in my last post on here I was coming around to that very same conclusion about Jimmi, i.e that he is not missing us as such just hates being alone.

I will study all those suggestions more intently tomorrow as I have to sign off now, although I can see that some of it is not possible with Jimmi (toys for example hold no interest for him whatsoever). Still, all the rest of it I will start tomorrow, along with the continued crate training.

I bet that you are feeling really optimistic now Cardaph - so good luck and we need regular updates!! I have to dash now, but will be back tomorrow to comment in more detail and also answer 1cutedogs post.

*pours large drink to take out

Cardaph, that sounds so optimistic for you being able to leave Bessie on her own soon and it must have been so good to know that she is a credit to you.

It's funny because I mentioned earlier on the thread somewhere that I wondered if Lana was just annoyed because I went out and left her and was protesting for that but it could also be she doesn;t know how to be happy on her own.

I will follow your results with interest. You must be so delighted that you can see an end in sight to the problems.

I must take a pen and paper to the park in future as I know a couple of people there have seen a behavourist about their dogs so if I'm lucky I might meet one of them and ask them to give me details of the person. In fact I will ask everyone I meet if they have had a behavourist and what they thought of them. Maybe if I can get a recommendation I would see about getting someone in to Lana.

I took the DAP diffuser out last night as it hasn't made the slightest difference to Lana and found it a waste of money so maybe SA isn't Lana's problem either.

Lana's going to the doggy sitters Friday and then again on Monday so I will see what she's like without me. The girl will take her to her house and she has a dog who loves playing with other dogs so if Lana gets on with it and I don't see any reason why not as she's very dog friendly I might discover that Lana doesn't want to come home to me

It seems girls all three of our dogs could be having the same problems and that's why up to now we haven't made much progress in solving them.

1cutedog she asked how Bessie was when left at the groomers, kennels etc. and to be honest she's absolutely fine. It seems as long as she has human company whoever it may be she's happy. Now we have to turn that around and get her to be happy on her own. Be interesting to see if Lana is the same with the dogsitter. It would be good if you got a behaviourist someone has used and can recommend.

Bitkin I think I'm more scared that this won't work than optomistic! Having failed with everything we've tried in the past I daren't hope that we now have or will have when we get the report, a plan that will actually work! I must talk to myself and change my attitude or I'm doomed to failure from the start!

So........we have three dogs here who it appears just don't want to be left on their own; surely this is still SA though, even if it doesn't mean from just one person?

Cardaph, someone else will have to do the bolstering of your optimism thing, because the more I think about this the more I am sceptical about it - although having said that, Bessie is a different dog to Jimmi and after all your Behaviouralist has tailored the cure to her and not him! I do really wish you all the luck in the world, and please please keep us informed whatever happens.

The message seems to be to give lots of mental work, and to withdraw certain privileges........but if we have a dog because we want them to be a part of the family and our lives as a pet, as opposed to a working dog, then it seems counter productive to cool the relationship by excluding them from affection (and bedrooms) unless they have earned it.

Jimmi already works for his treats, he sleeps alone in the kitchen at night, and has lots of mental and physical stimulation throughout the day on most days - and in fact I have realised that the more stimulation; playing; working that he does, the less he wants to be left alone.

Clearly, we are all willing to go along with anything that might enable us to leave a happy dog for at least an hour or so - and for myself I will continue with the very very gradual crate training, coupled with hiding treats, or putting them in a container.

1cutedog, I hope that you are fully recovered now? I suspect that as Lana is so similar to Jimmi, she will be absolutely fine tomorrow!! Horrid dogs worry us so much, and they sail along quite happily as long as there is a human around I have arranged for daughter and her family to dog sit for a couple of occasions coming up shortly, and realise that for the foreseeable future we will have to arrange for someone to be here when we have to go out together. Unfortunately, this does not cover unforseen emergencies does it, so we will have to just plod on.

Sorry, I am a little negative tonight

Cardaph, just believe that it will work for Bessie....the solution was tailor made for her.