I agree - diversity within breeds is a good thing imo.

I purposely chose a breeder who's bc's don't conform to the kc standards. I was looking for a pup to train to a high standard in agility so wanted one that was bred for the job it was intended for. Ok so he doesnt work sheep but he is fast,agile, light of foot and super turned on, and a cracking agility dog. Many of the show line dogs who compete in agility just can't cut the mustard. They seem to be a different shape,shorter backed and much more laid back in general.

The breeder does health check though and generally breeds to keep a pup.

Utter rhubabrb! Are you telling me people want dogs with mouthes like shovels, twisted backs, deformed front legs tec.. because they have seen other people with them? Do me a favour! please show me where all of these crosses breed to type, even the Labradoodle comes as "any variety Labradoodle!!"

Please ask at any boarding kennels, if the pedigrees are the ones on meds more than the crosses, you may be surprised. Just because you have one costing you money, it hardly represents the entire population does it? Perhaps the Lab breeders buyers should have been a little more careful in their purchases, homework is always the key.

I now know two labs and a collie from tested parents who have OCD----that wasn't tested for.

Please explain HOW you test for something that cannot be tested for and can affect ANY breed.

Elbow Dysplasia can be tested for and an increasing number of dogs in breeding programmes are being tested.

People conveniently forget that Labradors account for around a fifth of all dogs registered year on year with the KC and are typically a very healthy breed - yes, you will hear of problems, often from people who have bought indiscriminately - occasionally, you will hear of difficulties from well bred labradors, because testing lowers risk, not removes it.

I've just been looking at the breed averages for Labs in 2007, for that year alone in around 6,000 dogs tested, the year average was 12 (3 points below the running average)and continues to fall - for Poodles on 468 dogs (in total) tested it is 14.

Before people start saying there is no problem in a 'breed' or crossbreed, we need to see far more dogs being tested - only then will you get a true indication of whether there is a problem.

But whether the supporters of cross-breeds like it or not, a test embedded in a breed is done by people who care - a test not embedded in a breed is done because there is a recognised problem - - as we know the large majority of these deliberate cross breeds will come (in the main) from dogs at the lowest quality end of the scale to start with - and with that will ultimately come a recognition that problems exist and hence a small number of breeders will start testing.

EVERY single product that ever becomes available follows exactly the same pattern of early adopters through to late adopters and laggards - a fact that has been proven historically more times than anyone can argue with.

Do you know Swarthy, I read that as elbow dysplasia and it looks nothing like it!

So yes, your comment stands for Rune to answer. OCD is a problem that cannot be "pre" tested for.

OCD in collies, is genetic & often turns up more in Dogs than bitches, i suppose because they are bigger

But can it be tested for?

Is it inherited?

Although the factors that cause OCD are not completely resolved, direct factors considered to be involved in the development of OCD are rapid growth and trauma to the joint. Indirect factors affecting rapid growth include nutrition, hormones, and genetic predisposition to rapid growth and large size. Indirect influences that may lead to increased trauma to the joint include conformation and behavior, which are also influenced by heredity.


Therefore, the genetic link for most types of OCD is considered to be indirect, that is, an inherited tendency. Certain sites for OCD lesions, such as the elbow, appear to have a greater direct genetic contribution and a higher heritability than other sites, such as the shoulder. The most important contributing factor in OCD of the shoulder, the most common site, is thought to be trauma.


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Sources? No idea on the original source - amongst others

http://www.americanbordercollie.org/...%20Collies.htm
http://www.ourcollies.co.uk/ocd.htm
http://www.bryningbordercollies.com/...-Collie-Health
http://www.dogstuff.info/border_coll...tics_abca.html

Funnily enough once again if you had bothered to actually read what I wrote you would have seen that I said that I didn't believe in hybrid vigour although I have more reason than most to think it.

The cost of various conditions is irrelevant, the pain and discomfort to the dog is not

rune

There has been a test for OCD since 1998 I think---it mentions it on one site but breeders appear to be more comfortable without it.

I know of one breeder who stopped using a bitch when it turned up in one of her pups.

rune

Thats a shame, reading your posts you seem anti everything pedigree, stick to what you know eh.