Wombs and testicles are not `ripped out`

Recovery time from neuter - usually from about 24 hours post op owners worry about stopping the dogs from being too active - the recovery time as far as how the dogs themselves are doing is more the GA wearing off than effects of the op itself.
Recovery from ear mutilation - weeks of bandages and splints.

Pyometra kills.
Womb and testicular cancer kills.
Mammary cancer kills.

There is extensive medical benefit for neuter.

Floppy ears do not kill.

There is zero medical benefit to cropping ears, it is done purely for aesthetics, though I personally find it questionable as to why anyone would prefer the after to the before
As has been said, if people so `desperately` want a prick eared dog, get one which will have that appearance by birthright, not by utterly unnecessary surgery.

If you had quoted all of my post you would have also added the part where I mentioned the health benefits. This was the first and foremost reason for having Fugde spayed. The fact that I can 100% guarantee that there will NEVER be a puppy brought into this world that is hurt, unloved or abandoned that I have the repsonsibility for is an added bonus.

There is`nt a sliding scale of `this form of cruelty is `less` heinous than one further down a list`.
Deliberate cruelty is deliberate cruelty, end of.
To put a dog through cropping just for some human `to get the most out of showing` is one of the most crass excuses going for abusing a dog in this way.

Where not talking about Children so lets go back to the dog's, I did add at the begining of my original post unless for health reason!!!!!! I have had females who have never been spayed never had a phantom pregnancy never had mammary tumors and have never been mated, there are lot's of female dogs that have no problems at all being intact so I would expect it is a 50/50 chance of ill health due to not being spayed.
Most females are spayed because the owners aren't responsable enough to ensure that they do not get mated or they can't be asked to cope with a female season no other reason so thats mutilation for the sake of it, Most males are castrated because having it castrated people think it will stop all the issues you can have owning a male, and it changes nothing because, it's dog aggresive and people think that if they have it's nutt's off it will stop the behavior, wrong it will be the same dog with the same problems it will just be minus it's nutt's, males can be territorial and will lift there leg in the home marking out there area, having it castrated mean's it's just lifting it's leg but has no nutt's so unlless theres a health issue why mutilate a female or male dog, unless of course you can see in to the future and know that said male or female will definatly have testicular cancer or definatley have mammory tumors, ear cropping is done because it's part of the origanal breed standard and like it or not it was done throughout most of the world and still is in parts, it was done origanally because of fighting and ear damage yes before you say maybe thats not a good enough reason but that was the main reason for it, the main reason people have there dogs nuetered is because they can they make that choice just like the breeders who can still have a litter cropped make that choice, not a lot of difference in reality.


Mo and the Gang

Reducing the worlds canine population and health is a justified reason.

Chopping off a dogs' ears, because the owner wants to isn't justified, no matter how you put it

I just knew this was going to get into a neutering debate somewhere along the lines

Personally I find the cropping of dog's ears a barbaric practice, mainly so because it carries absolutely no benefit to the dog at all! I am also as some of you know anti-docking myself, although saying that I can see reasons why people would dock - as for ear cropping it baffles me

I think the numbers on the poll at the beginning of this discussion speak celarly for themselves. we are going round in circles here.You will never be able to justify the cropping of ears. it does not provide any health benefit whatsoever and is done because the owner prefers their dog to look that way. Whether pro/anti-docking it can be perhaps argued that it stops suffering in some working breeds.The medical procedure (not cosmetic) of spaying and castration has moral and medical benifit to the individual dog and the canine population as a whole. No matter how much you try to attack other procedures the cropping of ears will always be cruel, immoral and uncalled for.

Personally I would not put a puppy through ear cropping, and as it has been illegal here for over 100 yrs,,it will never be an issue with us in the UK....

I think the fact that neutering has been brought into it, is to highlight ...that we dictate whatwe the human race decide what it right or wrong for our animals...

I have to agree with Bilclarie on this, most people have their animals spayed /neutered for our own convenience.... the few will take health /procreation into consideration.

But the common reply to why we fix our dogs is because , "we dont want the hassle of seasons or intact male dogs.

That's fine, each to their own.. the reasons we choice to alter our dogs.

The fact is, cropping along with docking is still legal in some countries... whether we like it or not, in time I am sure it will be ilegal world wide... due to pressure .

But till then, give a little respect to those who still work with in their countries laws.

I do feel that Bilclarie is being made to feel like a leper, simply because she owns cropped dogs.

In two threads, she has been critasized , jumped on, simply because she owns cropped dogs.

We all have the right to voice our opinions/feeling on subjects... whatever side of the fence we sit on, but without getting personal.

I don't like it. I don't like the look of them and i think that the practise is cruel and unessecary.

Well this debate will go on and on for years to come there will always be those for and those against thats life, and we meaning me and the anti dockers or anti croppers will never see eye to eye on the subject, ears are not chopped or hacked off the are cut off and then stiched in some cases, most tails are bannded until the end of it is dead and it falls off just like with a lambs tails, Dew claws are cut off with a pair of small sharp sissors no numbing of the area first just cut off English breed standard says no dew claws the rest of europe keeps them on, how many people own a dog with no dew claws that are anti docking / cropping, as for spaying neutering it's unneccesary surgery in a lot of cases,as I have said in my previous post you don't know that your dog will get etc etc etc you have it spayed in case it does or for other reasons which are like the reasons for cropping no reason at all really, it's just done, I will always own a cropped docked Dobermann when I have no choice I will have a natural eared and tailed dog but all the time I have a choice I will own what I like, as for spaying and castrating there lie's your choice, as for the poll at the top of the page it means nothing at all to me because it won't change mine or many thousands / millions of peoples minds it's just a forum poll.

Mo and the Gang