I don't have a problem with people making money out of pups either----as long as they are brought up well from health tested parents and good temperaments. Breed standard is irrelevant except for hobby showing.

rune

No it isn't - the Breed standards were written by a combination of working AND show people - i.e. the breed standard is the conformation required of the dog to be able to perform the work for which it was intended.

Yes, the owners of the dogs may change what they want them to do - but the breed standards haven't been changed to 'account' for that - and you only have to look at Labs to see there are many successful working dogs that would easily pass muster in the showring.

ETA - it's a sad day when breeders start turning out dogs which bear little resemblance to the breed they are supposed to be - and IMO - they are the ones to ask why they breed.

It's about temperament, health AND conformation - and yes, you can have all three - and yes you can breed conformationally good dog that will do well in the showring and / or field whilst also making good pets.

Thats fine but as you said yourself showing is a hobby---and it is indulged in by a small proportion of the dog owning public---agility, obedience etc are the same---a hobby.

Why are the breed standards the be all and end all?----that thinking is what has caused the damage in some breeds. They are only important to those who want to show as a hobby---as you do. You said you breed to improve your lines and show and work----all great reasons and for YOU the way the dog looks is important. For many other people it really isn't relevant. In the same way that for most people it doesn't matter if a dog can't jump a fence---it only matters if you do agility as a hobby.

rune

How can that possibly be? If people were not concerned with the breed standards, the LOOK of the dog, then they wouldnt want a pedigree dog would they? anything will do? I mean take away the standard and you have a basic "type." That is a large type, small type,. long haired type etc..

The excellent part about breeding pedigree dogs to the standard set for them is not only do they look like what they should in most cases, they have the inbred characteristics associated with that breed, the very things people should be looking at when buying a dog. You dont get that with a dog of unknown breeding, or indeed a crossbreed you DO know the breeding of! They can take bits from here and there.

Well its fairly obvious to most people,

Breed standard is the be and end all (as you put it) because if there was not any, we would NOT have breeds!

Your banging your head against a brick wall me thinks...some folk just have a problem with showing and show dogs,

Thats fine for anyone who wants a dog looking like that---many people now want dogs that are different. I don't have a problem with that.

If a sportsman wants a different looking lab type or springer type to do the job then thats what he wants and will breed for----in the same way that the hobby show people breed for what they want.

The sportsmans standard is what works for him in his situation---the show persons standard is the KC breed standard because that works for them and they are more likely to win.

Unfortunately some breed standards and the way they have been bred for and judged have caused some breeds a lot of health problems.

Breed standards are great for those who show as a hobby if that is what they want from a dog. For other people there are different requirements and they prefer differenty looks---hence the rise in crossbred dogs and the willingness of people to pay for them. They aren't that worried how they turn out---they just know they don't want a dog that looks entirely like a labrador or a poodle (for instance)---they might get unlucky and get a total throwback but it is rare.

rune

LOL---no problem---great hobby and keeps a lot of kids off the streets doing junior classes.

Anyway some of my best friends show dogs!

rune

Nope---we'd still have breeds.

People who shoot would still breed springers labs etc, farmers collies, various organisations GSD's etc.

We might loose some breeds but everything evolves including dog ownership.

rune

Id agree if that type of dog was the only type that could do the job, but it isnt, the CORRECT type does it equally as well.

You will find that ALL working "types" have exactly the same health problems as the show types, plus Springer (many) have deformed front legs, you wont see that on a show type. Yet, what have these working people done to correct this? I see similar problems with breeders of working terriers. Just because a dog can hold a Fox at bay they breed from it, doesnt matter that its mouth is wry or undershot, because it can "do the job." thing is, these faults get worse over time.

The rise in crossbreeds is down to unscrupulous breeders and their efforts in claiming they are healthier, when anyone with an iota of sense knows thats wrong. thats why they are the most prevalent in rescue, along with Bull types etc.. the "fashion" at the time. People are extremely gullible, they "think" they have something different, rare, when in fact they hit the ground crashing when the problems they thought they would avoid spending their £800+ hit them in the face and their pocket!