The working trials PD stake is full of border collies and WSD, they compete very successfully in the bite work.

In fact at the KCCs this year the following are competing in the PD stake

2 x Cross Breeds
2 x Border Collie
1 x Labrador

Not a BSD, GSD, Rott, Dobe (insert other "macho breed" of your choice")

Two of the handlers are (I am sure they will not mind me saying) middle aged women!

Go figure!

....now this just confuses me even more ...if, as is being stated here :

why the heck would this apply to Labradors etc...surely a gun shot test would be more applicable ? ....and as an assessment for breeding ...really ?? - I would have thought that A PAT dog assessment was far more relevant for dogs in today's anti dog climate - after all won't their pups be mostly going to live as family pets ?


I mean WTF is this all about ?????

Hopefully I can clear up the confusion this is PD working trials which Smokeybear was talking about, which you had also mentioned you would like to see a ban on.

There is a test to the gun in all tracking stakes of working trials not just PD.

All the dogs competing in the KCC's in PD this year are family pets, I do know them all, I even live with one of the little sweethearts.

You always know you are winning a debate when you answer the persons questions, but they never answer yours..

I told you the ORIGINAL reason why Sch has the stick test. If other breeds want to compete because their dogs like it...why not?

So once again.....I restate, I do Sch because my dog really enjoys it. So what exactly is your problem with that? You don't like to see dogs doing something they enjoy?

You could have the same argument about agility, a lot of border collies compete who were bred to HERD SHEEP so why make them run over little wood boards at speed instead. Umm because it's fun for dog and owner?

Yes the Mali and GSD etc might have been bred to SHEPHERD but very few people have access to mountains and hillsides and sheep hence why a new way of testing them was invented.

I get that you don't agree with teaching bitework (although it isnt the bitework you have to teach, its the control) and that is completely your right. Just as some people don't like flyball or HTM or gundog training. But if I was to talk to someone about a sport I didn't really like and they explained how the sport came about and that they did it because their dog enjoyed it, I would just then agree to disagree. What's the point in keep asking but why this and why that about the same thing, and then making ridiculous accusations with it? It would be like me talking to a gundog trainer and saying well why do you want your dog to pick up dead animals and then when they explain...saying 'Oh well you might as well take your dog to the morgue and let it play with dead people then'

Bijou is getting the two sports mixed up.

I think it detracts from someones opinion and arguement in a discussion when they want a ban on something they then go on to prove they know nothing about.

Perhaps looking up both sports or even asking about them both before saying they should be banned might be a good idea?

rune

Its about men needing to assert their manhood over something smaller than themselves..........

Lets lift the pup off the ground and choke it to death to make it release the rag

I guess these individuals belong to the same club the first one because , these incidents are isolated you know

Wonder if that is why so many men seem to show smaller dogs?

rune

Who knows, there are many inadequate men around, some may need to dress up and prance around the ring with their litle dogs,to show off their manhood, others need to choke the life out of a pup , and use sticks and e.collars to assert theirs

I give up with this thread....it just isn't worth it.