Tazer: Ben is VERY bright, and is completely aware that the two zaps he had, and the vibrations, come from OH. Or at least, it might be more accurate to say you can see him thinking "how the ff can you reach out across that distance and do that!" Obviously, he has no understanding of HOW, just that it is. When OH has vibrated him now, he stops and looks at him, OH carries on calling him, and he comes, he knows that the vibration is a warning, like a tug on the lead to stop pulling and come to heel.

Rune: clearly you nothing about ADHD either, else you would know about the impulsiveness of the sufferer.

Spot: sorry if I ignored your question, it wasn't intentional at all, and I can answer it right now.

I don't know, it would have been a disaster if the e collar had not worked, because it would have meant that the only alternative would have been to keep him on a lead, except during the summer months when we are out on the bikes along the canals.

I guess it wouldn't be beyond the wit of man to try and find someone, somewhere, who would allow us to run the dogs off lead once a day in an enclosed field out of which he definitely could not escape. My friend who was in the accident with me has about 6 acres of fields where she keeps her 2 horses, we could ask her if we could "rent" a time slot each day to have access to her land, but the logistics of it would be difficult because she has different shift patterns of work, and we would only be able to run the dogs when the horses were in the stables - not because my dogs chase horses, they don't, they are very good with them, but because one of my friend's horses can be very aggressive and I wouldn't want any of them to get hurt.

It would be a very severe blow indeed if things went belly up with the e collar, I will be the first to admit that.

Moonstone: if you had had to live with someone for the last 24 years almost with ADHD, believe me, you would refer to them as "head bangers" - it is not meant in the literal sense of course, but another term you will here me use is "Adder". These children do not need to be wrapped in cotton wool and told there, there, they need a stable, loving home (which frequently they don't have because one of the worst aspects of ADHD is that it causes dysfunction in families), with clear rules and boundaries so that they know where they stand. And they need medication pretty well always.

I can't remember either why I brought up ADHD - but it's my blog, and I will say what I want to, so there!!

Krlyr - I would have to put my hubby on here to talk about the workings of an e collar, I really cannot act as a go-between because I do not understand what either side is saying - obviously a cardinal sin on here, not being able to understand something.

Ah yes, that reminds me why I brought up ADHD, I think I said something about me thinking I am an Add-er as well, because I have trouble with concepts sometimes.

All I can reiterate is that he said to me last night that Ben was talking a load of tosh - apologies to Ben, I don't mean to be rude or nasty to you, but they were his words, not mine - and that you have to have good skin contact else the collar won't work. All the thickness of the double coat does is REDUCE the stimulus, it does not act as some sort of conduit for the static electricity.

Heather: I am sorry if I caused you offence.

Gnasher---I taught many kids for many years as a qualified teacher----of course I know about ADHD ---as well as a LOT about autism as i taught kids with that condition as well as many others.

Please don't make assumptions.

Your daughters behaviour equates with Bens as being out of control---I asked if you would have thought of using an electric shock on her. Or if you worked it out differently.

It works you know---in the US there is a school that uses it.

So if you could answer the question I would be grateful.

If you have to have skin contact why is it not the same for a dog as it is for a human?

YOU were the one who said it was less bad for a dog because of the thick coat!!!

Gnasher, surely you can see that the ecollar hasn't actually worked if you now have to "vibrate" Ben to get him to re-call!! Yes, a vibration is not nearly as bad as a zap; but just the fact your OH is having to do this means that you still have not taught Ben to recall at all; he is still not taking notice of your OH calling him. I truly think you have been blinkered by the "information" your husband has given you re the zapping; lets face it, he could tell you anything and because you don't understand it, you believe him so so sad for Ben.

Skyesmum: but it DOES work! Sorry, I should have been pedantic and said OCCASIONALLY OH has to vibrate the collar to get his attention. Routinely now, Ben stays fairly close, moseying about as they do. OCCASIONALLY now, when he goes to say hello to another dog, or whatever, when he is whistled he doesn't respond, and therefore has to have a rumble.

That's all, nothing painful, just like a tug on a lead.