I would say that is a huge point - Maybe I am looking at it from the perspective of 'protecting' your lines.

But they do get things back.....just not money.


I was lucky....and to a certain extent I got off a bit lightly as there were a couple for DNA tests that I did not get done - both parents and a couple of grandparents) were genetically clear. So - in a way - I gained from Sirens breeder having paid out for the tests and I did not have to.

Of course a breeder wants to protect there lines from the wrong sort of people, dogs sold as pets should stay as just that I agree.. But for me paying people to neauter there dogs doesnt seem like a good idea. whos to say that a litter wouldnt 'secretly' been taken on a first or second seasons, then the bitch spayed on her third and the owner getting some money back? or that a stud dog isnt used a few times before being castrated.. I just dont think its a good way to make sure the dogs are not bred, plus anyone thinking about making money would believe they could make more from breeding their dogs than a breeder would give back for neautering.

What I find odd - is that you seem to feel that the money back thing would be done without other vetting of the home....I would expect the same checks to be carried out regardless - it would not just be a case of - oh well hand over the pup to anyone as its going to be neutered so not an issue?
You would still be looking to preform all the checks etc.

No I dont think that at all, but no amount of vetting owners you can never be sure if they will breed before the neauter, breed from a dog with endorsments and the like. This is why I feel trust is a majour thing between owner and breeder - for me more important than whats written on paper or offered back.

Indeed it is....but that should not stop other stuff being done as well (contract/endorsements etc).

I personally would not want to make it easier for people to breed.

PLEASE tell me WHERE my profit is coming from? because I would LOVE to know?

On another forum - we were asked to do a breakdown of all costs for having a litter - the total cost for my litter was £4,314 - the total sales of the puppies came to £3,300 (if you include the one I kept - £3,850) - that's a NET LOSS of £464 for a straightforward litter with no C-section - and doesn't account for any time I am not working - being self employed - no work = no pay.

If you can make a profit out of that - then clearly I did my Masters Degree for nothing

My business very heavily subsidises my dogs, my show and gundog training hobbies and the rare litter I breed when I want to continue my lines.

Add to this, the bitch I bought in but unfortunately couldn't breed from - around £2K down the drain - but still an adorable pet - and the dog I had to rehome - around another £2K.

There are SO many variables involved in producing a litter - it is frightening - you can invest everything up to and including the stud fee and STILL have no pups, and potentially no bitch either.

Anyone who believes that, for many breeds, there is profit to be made - and thinks they could run these 'wonderful schemes' is looking at it through rose tinted spectacles, charging too much for their pups, or cutting corners in some way.

So if you are making a loss WHY do you breed...

Most people spend money on their hobby---be it following a football team, playing golf, sailing or showing dogs.