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Moobli
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28-02-2012, 09:28 AM
Originally Posted by rune View Post
Just done a quick calculation. Gucci fathered 894 pups. Say that is 10 pups per litter---very roughly. That is at least 80 matings ----thats a lot of money.

rune
Yep - like most things in life, a lot of it boils down to money.
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rune
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28-02-2012, 09:32 AM
Originally Posted by JoedeeUK View Post
What You include me with Boxer, Dalmatian, Pug & other breeders who don't health test ??????????

Do get a life I was pointing out that according to JH 70% of ALL Cavaliers have SM, Claire Rusbridge(who is a Veterinary neurologist BTW)has had to repeatedly state this is not proven because the samples the research was done on(& is still being done on)are on dogs who are closely related to known affected dogs & therefore much more likely to have the conditions

My dogs have had more health testing done on them than any mutt from a rescue/BYB/puppy farm. How insulting can you get making out that I have no interest in the health of dogs.
Yes I do---you are so busy saying things don't happen and saying it is all made up and there are no problems that you can't hear or see anything different.

I have a life, my dogs and your dogs have a life----unfortunately that can't be said for the boxers who died or the pugs and cavvies who are struggling and in pain.

rune
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Jackie
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28-02-2012, 09:34 AM
Originally Posted by alexgirl73
I'm afraid to a large extent I agreed with the vet. I have no problems as such with dog shows, but as a fun aside to actually owning a dog, not the reason for owning one! There are far too many people out there who only give a damn abut the trophies, rosettes and prestige they earn from showing their animals, not the actual dogs themself. I think that is why increasing numbers of people are becoming anti show, which is a shame really, because they can be great fun from what I've seen. But if the welfare of the dogs could be improved from banning shows and not giving these 'breeders' (and I use that word loosely) a platform to show of their, in the vets words, mutants! then I'm afraid I'd be all for it.
What about all other dog activities... its not just the show world that has an element of "trophy hunters" agility/working obedience, not to mention cats/horses, ect , ect.

People have animals for all sorts of reasons, and as people will see them differently, to those who have pets first to those who see them as a means to an end.

Regards the idiot vet..........when was th elast time he actually practiced as one

He was in the programmer years ago, and from what I can remember he became a TV b rated celeb.(as many of the other did). working on everything and anything from DIY to cars???
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x-clo-x
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28-02-2012, 09:36 AM
Originally Posted by Jet&Copper View Post
.........and if she was winning best of breed in shows but was shown to be carrying a serious genetic defect, would you still breed from her? That's the issue here - breeders putting their own sad little egos over the health of a breed they a supposedly meant to be protecting
no, and thats why i health tested before i bred
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Moobli
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28-02-2012, 09:36 AM
Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs View Post
But they do have some power - If they can say they can refuse to register puppies from Mother son matings - then they can refuse to register all sorts
They could refuse to register without tests
they could refuse to register litters by a stud after a certain number of litters
They could refuse to register a certain COI
Again, think £££££££!!!
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Jet&Copper
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28-02-2012, 09:40 AM
Originally Posted by x-clo-x View Post
no, and thats why i health tested before i bred
Exactly. The breeders featured in this programme were putting ££££'s before health
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Jet&Copper
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28-02-2012, 09:40 AM
Originally Posted by Moobli View Post
Yep - like most things in life, a lot of it boils down to money.
Totally agree.
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JoedeeUK
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28-02-2012, 09:43 AM
I am still getting through the thread but if this has not been addressed the quote of 70% is on solid ground. From a 2011 study of 555 UK cavaliers, reported by their owners to be symptom-less - 25% of one year olds and 70% of 6+ year olds had SM.
So 555 dogs is good representative random sample of Cavaliers in the UK ? or was is 555 from dogs whose owners had put them forward ? or 555 dogs(like mine)selected from the blood donors & subsequently found to have SM ? or 555 from dogs MRI scanned ?

"There are lies, damn lies & statistics" in other words staistics depending on the source material can be manipulated & used to prove two theories that are poles apart.

Until the breed clubs bring in compulsory MRI scanning of ALL Cavaliers no one knows the % of dogs affected. My Roodee(from 2 generations of over 30 months scanned normal dogs)will be scanned, but not until he is 5 & he will never be used at stud, the scan will be for his breeder & this mother's breeder(who both have been scanning their dogs BEFORE the first program-just as my Loukar was scanned 5 years before the original program at the request of his father's breeder/owner & not the member of this forum who bred him & sold his brother as a stud dog knowing that Loukar & his father had SM)
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Moobli
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28-02-2012, 09:43 AM
Originally Posted by JoedeeUK View Post
& if they did they could be taken to court for restricting the"trade"of the breeders & they would lose.

They have in fact still had to register mother/son, brother/sister, father/daughter after being taken to court(I know of one should registration). The vast majority of breeders would never breed so closely nowadays, but go back to the good old days(pre kennel club)& it was a very common practice & it was how the breeds were developed in the first place.

The same goes for any open registry, they would have to change to a members only registry & then they could set their own rules & regulation & make health testing compulsory.

The Kennel Club & the ISDS are the only canine registry that run health testing schemes & because the ISDS registry is a members only closed registry they can refuse to register dogs that do not fulfill their rules
I wonder how viable it would be to scrap the KC altogether and each breed should have its own closed registry.
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x-clo-x
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28-02-2012, 09:44 AM
after reading this whole thread.

i think the program was more balanced than the last one, but it still "show bashed" slightly, and the vet really annoyed me, he just hyped up and tarred every pedigree dog with the same brush as all unhealthy, all crippled etc, when we all know there are some very healthy, gorgeous pedigree dogs out there.

i think naming and shaming the boxer breeders was a good thing, ive looked at their sites before when looking at boxer breeders, id certainly never buy one from them now, and hope alot of people dont buy from them either.

as for the squishy face breeds (couldnt remember how to spell the actual word ) there are breeders out there who dont breed for such an exaggerated face, its clear on their sites, some breeders now breed for less wrinkle, i know there is a bulldog breeder who does, and he still shows, and wins, so it does show people are making the right move in the right direction.

i hope, because puppy farms were mentioned, that she is going to do a program on BYB and things to balance it out more. its not just pedigree dogs that need sorting.
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