Im an exhibitor that has never bathed her dogs full stop!!!!

The KC's stance on this is just silly - exhibitors have always presented their individual breeds to their best advantage and in some very specific idiosyncratic ways - some trim and even 'sculpt' the coat - Gun dogs are stacked - Yorkies have their little red Boxes - GSD's are gaited endlessly round and round the ring -Bull dogs are shown head on - Terriers face on to each other to get the desired 'sparkiness' and yes some breeds have more in the way of coat preparation than others SO WHAT ? ....my own breed needs less grooming than say a Poodle or an Afghan but is baited to enhance it's alertness ....is this also cheating ?.....and if it's thought to be unfair to other exhibitors who do none of these things then should we not also ban professional handlers after all they also present their dogs better than less experienced exhibitors ....come to think of it what about banning those flashy breeds that always seem to do well at group and BIS level - after all competing against them just has to be unfair to less eye catching breeds ( when was the last time a Schpperkee, Buhund or Lancashire Heeler won BIS ? ) -

is'nt this all just another piece of nonsense aimed at placating our detractors who quite frankly will only stop once there are no pedigree dogs at all ! ......... what a sad grey world the future of dog shows will be without a the glorious spectacle that some of our clever groomers and handlers present - we all know that those wonderful top knots and flowing coats are not held together with spit and water but who cares ? .....it's a dog show ....!! -...go to any agricultural show and your'll see 'products' used with gay abandon to whiten cows tails - to add sheen to goats hooves and to enhance ponies coats ....take a look here ..
http://www.vittetoe.com/showstopper/showcattle5.htm

hell - they don't use hairspray ...cattle exhibitors use GLUE !!

That made me smile.

Good post though, and completey agree with everything you say!

Just because someone else does something dosent make it right
You are obviously very passionate about this and thats a great thing - but dosent mean others cannot question it too

I have nothing against people enjoying a show and being proud of their dogs - but if hairspray, dye, whitening products etc are increasing the chances of a dog winning then I have to ask what is it exactly that is being judged?

To be honest any judge that cannot tell what lies underneath the 'flash and dash' should hang up their judging rosette ! - - but the preparation, handling and stance are sometimes the deciding factor between two equally good dogs and at over £100 per show why not give yourself that extra edge over your competitor ? - it's the icing on the cake but of course the 'cake' itself must be of good quality

When looking for dogs to use for future breeding and for evaluating the latest crop of puppies ( which are a big part of what dog shows are about ) we should be looking at construction, type, health and temperament -we all know that flawless presentation and performance only comes with lots of hard work by the owner and handler and will not be genetically passed on to any pups - it's like saying that pups from an Obedience Champion will all be able to do perfect heel work - the natural talent may be there but the hard work and skill of the handler counts for an awful lot too !

Absolutely!!!!!! I must admit, I'm on the fence about coat testing. On the one hand, if an exhibitor can make their dog look better with a quick spray on the topknot, I don't see the problem, I just wouldn't like to see them how they are groomed in America and Europe. Incidentally, I don't use products on Rio's coat but I do use supplements to enhance it - would people say this is wrong too?

[QUOTE=bijou;2258752]-
dont be ridiculous!

take away the products the dogs still exists as do the shows

I'm not saying they're fooled by a haircut, but trimming away the coat to enhance the dog to me is just as bad at adding products to the coat to enhance the dog. Like I've said, excessive presentation/trimming/stripping in breeds that are meant to be current working breeds will end up with the coat changing in order to increase flashiness and therefore their chances of winning in the ring - this to me is wrong as the dog is no longer judged against the breed standard. ESS should have moderate feathering, yet until recently the fashion was for glamour and as a result the coat became ridiculous. Thankfully this is now being dealt with - the winner of Crufts was a brilliant example of a breed standard ESS.

Also lets not turn this into yet another show/working debate - working breeders in gundogs have just as much to answer for as the show breeders, just for different reasons.

Quote:
is'nt this all just another piece of nonsense aimed at placating our detractors who quite frankly will only stop once there are no pedigree dogs at all !


that's not my point ....there is no doubt that the whole concept of pedigree dogs is being questioned in some quarters - and dog showing even more so - we would expect the Kennel Club to put up a robust defence of 'our world' but instead what does it do but roll belly up in an effort to please our detractors ( which of course it never does, they just find another stick to poke us with ) - and THAT'S what this is about - it's beyond a joke - how illogical and hypocritical of the KC to punish a Westie owner for using a bit of chalk on their dog and yet continue to accept money and register pups from blatant puppy farmers !.

...and now it has banned Dog World from attending its AGM because it published details of Mike Gadsby's petition - where has the KC been for the last 10 years ? - the world is a diifferent place and we are all now able to discuss freely via the internet any and all aspects of it's governance - muzzling the dog press WON'T stop folk from commenting via sites like this , etc etc - it needs to listen to what exhibitors, breeders, trainers and owners want ( i.e their customers ! ) and stop playing King Canute with modern communication systems in an attempt to stifle open debate !


... ...but does'nt your average 'Dancing with Dogs' handler not also include 'flashiness to increase their chances of winning in the ring " what's natiural about a dog doing a quick fox trot in time to music ?- it's hardly similar to rounding up a flock of sheep -I'm not knocking it but it's JUST as far away form the dogs original purpose as any show dog !!!

But dancing with your dog doesn't alter it's breed in the long run does it? My problem with excessive grooming is that historically it has shown that the breeds move away from the breed standard in an effort to produce big coats to increase the chances of winnig, which for working breeds is detrimental!

I was also under the impression that the "detractors" were from within the side of the show fraternity who have had enough of people trying to circumvent the rules, as opposed to people outside of the show world?!