Originally Posted by
Ben Mcfuzzylugs
Steve it is rather insulting for everyone who has taken time to reply here for you to attack people and then admit you havent read all they wrote[/b]
I have said several times, that I didn't read them because there was about 2 pages of people just having a poxy go at me, simply because it differed from their own opinion and as such, I was told by Azz to just ignored them to avoid arguments. But oh look, I ignored them and yet we still end up with arguments. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.
Have you looked at the links evie gave you about raw feeding - they have stuff about carnivores omnivores
Yes I did, they were... interesting.
seeing as dogs have been living on our meat scraps for thousands of years (when they joind us in the hunt the woulda got meat - we wouldnt have taken the time to cook veggies and grains for them) and feeding kibble is far more modern I think it should be you proving that dogs are omnivores rather than the other way around
So you will happily say that dogs have lived off human scraps for the past 14,000 years, but not accept that human scraps may have also contained vegetables?
(Also notice how you left that out, yet I'm not jumping down your throat with the world and his wife for not mentioning it.)
But
It is usually taken when the skull of a new animal is found to look at the teeth to figure out what the animals diet was
humans have some pointy teeth and some grindy teeth - omnivores
dogs have pointy teeth and their jaw only moves up and down not side to side = carnivores
So, dogs cannot eat vegetables because they have pointy teeth and their mouths only perform vertical movements... ?
Omnivores need vitamin C in their diet, carnivores synthesise it inside them - even kibble companies do not include vit C in their RDA's for dogs cos dogs dont need it
The argument was not based on dogs not functioning without vegetables, the argument was that vegetables
can be feed to dogs, as well as meat.
There is differences in carnivores - cats cannot live without meat (afaik) they cannot utalise any other sources of protien
dogs, when times are lean, can scavinge and get buy on lots of different things - except they cannot break down the cell walls in uncooked veggies - really I would expect a omnivore to be able to eat veggies and get nutritional benifit from them
Again, research into that is hard to come by and is largely unproven by the mainstream.
Are wolves omnivores?? No. Is a dogs digestive tract much different? No
Wrong question, can wolves eat vegetables? yes. I never for one second said anything that contradicts that dogs are more predominently meat eaters than leaf eaters. Yet, judging by some of the replies, it suggests that I had done so.
Carnivores have much shorter digestive tract cos meat digests fast
omnivores and herbivores have much longer digestive tract cos it is more difficult to digest veggies and carbs
I cant give you 'proof' if you are looking for websites cos basically most you will see is some 'recearch' done by people paid by kibble manufacturars 'proving' they are omnivores - in general raw feeders havent done the recearch
1. cos they dont have funds cos except for the BARF diet noone is really making money out of the advice on raw feeding
2. once you have been feeding raw for a couple of months you really dont need any more proof than the happy little carnivore
As always, I'm open enough to listen and to be recorrected, as long as it is not done in some sort of condescending way, which is what I have mainly objected to in this thread.
I am confused you say people have gone off topic and nitpicking (mind you I am getting threads mixed up) you talked about feeding, exercise and pack theory things in your opening post - that is what we are discussing
Correct, but when people start giving me hypothetical situations as 'tests', whilst insulting me and my ability, I get rather annoyed by people trying to change the subject to me as a trainer, as opposed to the discussion in hand.
You knew not everyone would agree with you
I disagree on other points you put too but I have focused on the food because I am worried that you are recomending one type of food that isnt even considered all that good
Fair enough, it's what I feed my dog and as a result, I'll look into it further, but from what I have gathered, is that people are put off the product because its tested on animals. They did so without any proof and they made a statement that so vehemently disagreed with mine, based on ethical grounds, that upto the point, I hadn't heard of. If it is indeed true, then I'll change my own dog's diet and wean him onto something else, however, I haven't heard anything that suggests the practice method of that product and I haven't had any negative experience with my own dog (or any other dog that I recommended* the owner to buy for)
I dont want to assume anything about how much work you have done on neutrition so I will just ask
If only others had the same approach as you, I doubt I would have gotten half as worked up on this forum.
How did you come to choose that particualr brand? what criteria do you use for a good dogfood? do you recomend that food to your paying clients?
I was advised to get it by someone who I actually trust on their nutrition values, as such, I'll pass the info on to her next time I see her to quiz her. I go by a balanced diet criteria, Chinook also seems to eat less of this particular brand than others.
(and before you turn it around - I have no qualifications in this
That to me is a bit unfair, I haven't tried to turn anybody's comments around and I haven't asked anyone for their qualifications/experience as I find it highly irrelevant.
but like most raw feeders I have done many many hours of recearch into dog feeding, what goes into dog food and why and what a dog really needs)
And if I was to start weaning my dog on raw food, I would also do the same, so there's nowt to argue about there.
Mind you you prob aint even reading this
Dare I say it, another assumption?
Look, I didn't join this place to cause arguments, I would much prefer to be learning from most of the people that I seem to constantly be clashing with. Sadly, I don't appreciate the tone in which they are giving information and I don't like the fact that I am more often than not, arguing on this forum as opposed to learning.
Yes I'm stubborn and I think some people here spend way too much up on their high horses that they think they have the immediate right to say "you're wrong" without backing it up.
But I also learn exceedingly quickly and I'm open minded enough to take on board things that I may not understand right away, but again, I don't appreciate in how a lot of the information is given and I rarely tolerate people so pedantic who are just trying to spoil for a fight, forcing their opinions down mine, and anyone who is reading, throat like some deranged Jehovah's witness hellbent on conforming everyone to their own thinking.
I simply started a thread as a helpful post and I have been insulted, made fun of and unfairly questioned for doing so. I know it was a discussion, but frankly, if this is how discussions on Dogsey takes place, then I'd rather find another forum to learn from as well as try and help on.