I dont need to reevaluate anything, why should I? Just because my views are different from your dosent mean they are not the correct views to me

Yes I have been told things like that - been told that I shouldnt let my dog play with other dogs, I should be his only motication
I ignored - and he is plenty moticated

I have heard people not interacting with their dogs at all except when they took them out for training, work, agility, whatever.
Yes the dogs seemed really focused and happy - but the reality was they were so needy for anything outside the normal boringness of being locked up - and this was all they knew - they were never content

and the same with this little dog, if its all she knows then of course she will show well, a show is the only time she gets all that stimulation, she is like a 5 year old at a party
But her only point in life has been to stroke her owners ego by winning rossettes
Kruse is right - this thread really makes me think of the toddler beuaty pagents with the little girls caked in makeup and their mothers making them rehearse their innane giant grins
depends on your definition of what is 'cruel' but imo it is not 'right' and it shocks me that people think it is right
She lives the life of a soft toy

It actually dosent matter if the garden is giant
It is a dissifected slabbed garden
It has the same mental stimulation as another room in the house

a dog NEEDS to see different things, and more importantly smell different scents
a person could live every day in an empty house with no tv or books - but then once a day be give an hour to read the same newspaper every day
if they never knew anything else then they wouldnt know any different and could even seem quite happy

but they shouldnt live like that

This little dog should not live like that

The dog visits dog shows regularly, does that not count as different "scents?"
I mean really, how more of a doggy place could a dog wish to be?

20 shows a year and she won't get that now because she's retiring, but will likely be bred from

Well then Im sure she will be very well cared for. She looked a beautifully calm, well adjusted and completely relaxed dog to me. Hardly one that lacked anything at all IMO. Not my cup of tea as a breed, but most pleasant just the same.

Its all well and good knocking these people, yet the ones you see at shows are not the ones creating havoc for their owners are they? See my point? Their "life" obviously leaves them able to deal with pretty much any situation, unlike many pets!

Of course when you are talking about the amount of time a dog gets individual attention, the number of dogs matter!

Say I have 5 hours to spend with my dogs... If I have 2 dogs, they can get 2.5 hours time, if I have 5 dogs, however, then they will only get 1 hour... So, IMO it definitely does matter how many dogs there are.

Where did I say the dog spends ALL her time in a crate??? I was merely pointing out that their is a difference between a crate, and having a specific area/room to roam in (which is what you were comparing it to).

I didn't say she was crated ALL day, I was referring to the other post! The other post said that at least she isn't a dog that is crated ALL day while the owners were at work, and I was making the point that she is still crated though (I never mentioned how long for, or said she was crated ALL day)... I was merely stating that she is crated, as the other post made out as though she isn't.

Yes, but we are going on what was in the article, and it is simple that there are so many hours in the day to sleep, do day to day things, and look after and spend time with 20 dogs... It isn't that difficult to make a good guess... Yes, it is still a guess but, going by the article, it can't be that far off it.

Well, in the article she specifically says that if she were to fall or swallow something, then she would never show again... not that it would be a terrible thing for the dogs sake, and health... but that she (the dog) would never show again...

That's not the point though... you asked if I thought YOU were a bad owner for crating young dogs, and not allowing your dogs free run of the house... I never mentioned 'bad owner' and therefore I want to know why you said 'too'... that suggests I have previously said that, so I would like to show me where I did. I don't like when people put words in my mouth.

It matters completely!!! The dog is ALLERGIC, I can't believe the two are even being compared I know a dog who is allergic to grass, and if she goes on it she will have terribly sore paws, nibble away at them, lose her fur and they go red raw (and is now on steriods for life coz she is allergic to so much)... It is for her benefit to not be put through such pain...

It comes down to...
Enjoyment of grass vs lots of pain and discomfort for the dog
Enjoyment of grass vs a nice clean coat for the owner

Very very different IMO, and I can't quite believe they are being compared...

It's the same as the walk issue. I don't agree with people not walking their dogs, but I understand that sometimes dogs cannot be walked... whether that be for the dogs health, or that they just don't enjoy it/get stressed out... One is for the owners benefit, and the other is for the dogs...

Yes, I am sure the 20 dog shows a year provide that...

If dogs are getting a large interesting area to investigate everyday, then chances are it will keep them interested for a while... especially if it is a busy place with wildlife coz the smells etc will change a lot...

A paved garden, not matter how big, just cannot in my mind ever provide that for a dog. The vast majority of the dogs I know would be bored by that quite quickly...

That's great, Jake has 3 main walks too... I mix it up though, and they are all busy places for wildlife so that keeps him busy with lots of smells to investigate... I do also try to take him to other places when I can though, and vary things up again.

Can you point me to where I mentioned the word 'abuse'??? I can't quite seem to remember that one...

And, in that specific quote, I wasn't referring to 'this particular case'. VB said 'in the general sense of dog ownership'... that is what I responded about... the general sense of dog ownership.

Again, I didn't say they spend ALL day in a crate, and the dogs are let out into the garden. This isn't a breed though, that would take a lot of have in good physical condition.

Would people agree with other breeds being kept like this? What about ESS, Labs or BCs?? (Just the first breeds I thought of that are bigger).

I'm pretty sure she'll be cared for much the same as she is now

I'm just wondering what the response would be to a prospective owner introducing themselves on here:

.......... Hi I'm new and I'm getting a small dog. I will bath her with the best quality products twice a week, cut her hair regularly and brush through a lot of times a day to make sure my new princesses hair is always looking beautiful. My new dog will be able to run around when we are in the same room and will have a lovely bed to rest on, but when I'm not in the room or I have to go out she will have a very nice cage to go in because I don't want her to hurt herself. I have a garden that is fully covered in flags that are scrubbed and disinfected daily to ensure that my new baby's coat won't get dirty. We won't go on any walks outside the garden - again, because my dog's coat is very important to me so I want it to stay clean and tidy. I will be taking her on special outings 20 times a year though because it will give me the chance to show her off. Any advice welcome ................

I can just imagine the replies a post like that would get

Get a soft toy not a dog!

Lozzie - goob point I forgot about.
Shows her priorities hughly when she is worried her dog will get hurt and not be able to show
For me (and most people on here) the words out my mouth without a thought would be 'I am scared my dog will hurt themselevs' thats it - there is no qualification, showing is not as important as my pet

Paved gardens - the main reason for this in multiple dog households is necessity. With constant playing, doing potty & so forth the garden ie grass will soon cease to have grass, it will become a foul smelling area where nothing grows. If the dogs continue to plough through the area they are at high risk of getting infections in their feet, bitches with Uti's etc. it is therefore much more hygenic to pave the garden in. It is necessary to keep the paved areas very clean as even paved the urine smell will soon build up. Bleach is a good deterrant to clean the area washed & germ free as possible.

I have a very large garden & with all the rain lately it is a nightmare. At the top of the steps deep thick congealing mud starts. Everytime the dogs come in i have to wash their feet & legs. If i could afford it i would pave at least the bottom half of it, preferably all of it, however that will never happen. I am hoping to get a path put up one part of it to the top garden. My ideal garden would be all paved with raised flower beds & a raised pond

Why is it wrong to pave the dog area - surely preventing infection and keeping the dogs clean is a sign of a caring owner ?

My dogs have a paved dog yard which is hosed down daily and which means that they can be cleaned up before coming into the house - it also means that I can keep my garden area free form being churned up into a mud bath

dog area:

[IMG][/IMG]

garden:



hey even my chicken area is paved !!!




honestly folks- what's the problem