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Location: Here !
Joined: Oct 2006
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03-12-2007, 08:23 PM
Originally Posted by spettadog 
I trust this is the end of this discussion as you have taken it completely off topic. I personally do not want to hijack somebody else's post trying to justify myself to you.
Originally Posted by spettadog
Now, that said, most breeders will tell you there is no money in breeding and the sole reason they breed is to better the breed. I am sorry but I cannot agree with that. With puppies selling for £500+ average and say the litter is 8. That's £4000. Nobody will convince me that it costs £4000 to have health checks done etc,. and rear the puppies.
Originally Posted by spettadog
In what way? What costs are involved, apart from the health tests? I am not being cheeky. I am asking because I want to know what is involved.
Now, I trust THIS is the end of the discussion, as I too dont think it fair to hijack someone elses thread justifying FACTS to you
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Location: Here !
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03-12-2007, 08:55 PM
Originally Posted by mo
Malady, if you remember I posted a list of expenses from raising a litter, and it showed the lack of profit to be made, if you can find that on here it may help put thing into perspective.
Mo
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Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
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03-12-2007, 08:59 PM
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Location: UK
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Posts: 1,247
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Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,859
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Location: Poodle Heaven!
Joined: Dec 2006
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03-12-2007, 10:11 PM
Originally Posted by morganstar
I had 8 puppies last time and with the two weeks I took off work from dog grooming the £100 I pay everytime for Ian to make me a whelping box ( I use a different one for each litter as It's usually grubby). The 4 tubs of Puppy porridge at £15.00 each, and the £100 to register with the KC, I think after vets bills I made £65.00, which I probably spent on petrol to and from the stud dog.
a profit of £65 wow you could live off that :smt002 How much would you consider is reasonable to charge for having to spend 3 weeks in bed with mum andpups because she wouldn't look after them otherwise?Becky
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Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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Posts: 121
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03-12-2007, 10:26 PM
Originally Posted by spettadog
Hi there
Its taken me ages to read through this thread and there are some very interesting posts on it.
IMO the only way that people will stop exploiting dogs is for people to stop buying them from people that exploit them. Now, that said, most breeders will tell you there is no money in breeding and the sole reason they breed is to better the breed. I am sorry but I cannot agree with that. With puppies selling for £500+ average and say the litter is 8. That's £4000. Nobody will convince me that it costs £4000 to have health checks done etc,. and rear the puppies. My own breed sells for £1000 and sometimes the litters are as big as 12. £12,000 that's a mighty good return dont you think. Is it any wonder that people seem to think its easy money and dont bother to do the health checks.
I have my own gripe with the KC in that they stand for the general improvement of dogs. If this is their mission then they should not register any puppy whose parents have not had all the health tests carried out for that particular breed.
It is up to the breed club to advise the KC of what health tests need to be done and some of them dont bother to do that. However, the KC should be more proactive and make them do it.
Also, buying a puppy from somebody who is a member of a breed club is not safe either. Breed Clubs have code of ethics which the member is advised to adhere to. They are not made to adhere to it. You cannot throw anybody off a breed club if they decide not to do the tests. I have had experience of this.
The KC and welfare charities could also be doing more to highlight what to look for when you buy a puppy. I mean, they could use up some of the £500,000 profit (which they shouldnt have because they are a not for profit organisation!) on media campaigns to go out on national TV. Why dont they do this? Its easy enough!!!
In conclusion, the KC should be making sure all the relevant health checks are carried out before registering a puppy. They should be using some of their money on TV advertising and they should be forcing the breed clubs to come up with a list of health tests their breed needs to have carried out before they will register puppies. I dont think that would be hard to do. Even if they started doing it now, at least they would be seen to be doing something.
As for buyers making sure all the health tests have been done. Lets face it, the general public on the whole have got no idea what they are looking for. The people that sell dogs are very pleasant because they have to be like that to get the sale!!! Its not always their fault. Additionally,you have the fact that they feel sorry for the pups if they see them in poor conditions and will buy it just to get it away from there. These unscrupulous dealers etc., have you every which way!!! If they're not playing on your heart strings they are playing on your conscience.
Kind regards
Spettadog
I have just spent the whole of this evening reading the post that the links have been referred to. I can agree that there is a big difference between ethical breeders and reputable breeders. The two are very different. By that I mean that reputable breeders do not "give" as much to their puppy owners. I bought my dogs from a reputable, KC accredited breeder. I got a puppy pack which included food, pedigree etc., An information sheet on the breed regarding health problems etc., and that was it. However, the puppies were well reared, in a clean environment and were from excellent breeding. I most certainly did not get toys, collars/leads, training class vouchers. The puppies had their first vac, not their second. I think this is standard. Anything more than that would be seen as a bonus IMO. I applaude anybody who takes the time to give as much as MO did to her litter.
That said, the breeders of my dogs did not put that amount into the dogs and most certainly did not take 12 weeks off work etc., However, I do think they were reputable breeders that bred with the interests of the breed at heart. They definitely did make a profit. Might not be thousands of pounds the first time, but it certainly was the second time!!!! Are they not ethical? They would take my dogs back if anything changed; they are there for advice on working and showing my dogs.
I may have a litter of pups in the future but only if everything is right ie health tests etc., and I may go abroad for a stud to widen the gene pool. But, at the end of the day, if any dog comes into my home and lives with me, it lives with me until the end of its days. It doesnt just live with me during its showing career or breeding years. I love my dogs and couldnt bear to be apart from them.
I definitely feel as if I have been jumped on here and am going to report this to a moderator. I have made a valid point in my post and have stated what I know to be the case.
Spettadog
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Location: Here !
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03-12-2007, 10:42 PM
There are many ethical breeders on here, but you made no mention at the start of differences, your statement was a general one stating breeders, full stop.
Did you not expect for ethical breeder to not come on here and defend themselves against your statement., or is everyone just supposed to agree with you ?
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Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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03-12-2007, 10:55 PM
Regarding your last comment. If you care to look through the thread that I have spent all night reading you say that you rehome adult/ex-breeding dogs to private homes. Or have I picked you up wrong?
Spettadog
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