Sounds a bit scared to me but then I'm not there.
I agree with Wys, there comes a point when we ahve to all agree to differ anmd I think we have reached it.

Suffice to say, my BC will have a snap if dogs get too stupid round him. It happens about, ermmmm...........well I actually can't remember the last time he did it,possibly about 3 or 4 months ago??? Before that.....ummmmmmmm...........
So it doesn't happen a lot then, BUT it does happen and as far as I'm concerned that's fine.
If another child was bouncing around my child lots poking him and getting in his face and my child repeatedly said 'no please stop that' nicely, tried to move away...more of the same, asks nicely again and again....then my son yells in the childs face 'BACK OFF!' Do I tell my son off for showing restraint throughout? Nope. Would it stop the other child, probably. That, as far as I am concerned is what a snap is about. (PLease everyone I'm not anthropomorphising, just trying to explain how I see a snap).

Anyway, suffice to say, point made and I'll hush now.


Shona...I think you may have a point about the herding breeds, I'd never thought about it before.

My Staffy snapped at another dog just the other day , this huge lab X came bounding over to us and it continually tried to hump her she eventually had enough and snapped in his face, he continued trying to hump her as I was calling her away and she continued snapping at him not growling just snapping, the owner eventually came to get him telling me his dog was trying to hump everything at the moment and he'd have to get him done, I know I would have done the same if a man was harassing me in that way ,it would of been more than a snap i'd have given him though

Well, I think we've all had a good and civilised discussion, not sure that there's much more to say but it was good to see other peeps joining in too - the more the merrier!

I thought it may be a good idea to show a video link of a rather gorgeous Airedale boy (reminded of this as we've just mentioned calming signals and snapping and grooming).

He's called Tucker and he hated having his nails trimmed. If anyone's interested, do take the time to listen to what the owner says, what poor Tucker was subjected to, and then watch how the use of the clicker helps him to feel so much better about having his claws done.

I could watch this over and over again - it's so interesting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgEwiH8CeUE

Wys
x

If anyone reading this thread is interested in reading more about dog-human relationships, how humans see dogs and why we do what we do around dogs, 2 useful books are:

The Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson

http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DTB464

and,

The Other End of the Leash by Patricia McConnell.

http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DTB745

I've given the Dogwise.com links as it's possible to zoom in and read back cover etc :smt002


Wys
x

my rescue bull mastiff who is now sadly at the bridge tried to snap at the cat a couple of times when he first came, it was an eye opener, he snapped caught his own lips and jowlly bits the poor thing had several holes in his lips, again not a face made to snap, short nose too much skin, ouch he soon learned to play nice with the cats, thank god,

I agree with the above..
I would never shout at/punish a dog which growls or snaps (though I appreciate this is a natural reaction for many people ) it can lead to disaster and a dog that gives no warning of an attack. (If you shout the dog may also think from your tone that you are growling too adding to the problem )

A puppy will learn from its dam at the weaning stage that unwanted attention will elicit a growl and if this is ignored a snap. If puppies stay with the dam and litter they go on to learn bite inhibition so that should they bite they won't cause damage, this is why it is so important that puppies arriving in their new home are taught bite inhibition.

I think if a dog growls or snaps at another dog instead of punishment it is better to try to work out the reason for the behaviour then to anticipate it and to take avoidance measures by doing things like turning your dog to face away from the threat/avoiding eye contact with other dogs/ desensitisation to other dogs in controlled conditions.

I had a rescue dog which growled at everything that moved for the first weeks, that was her way of expressing fear/uncertinty of the situation/saying keep away , she was left alone and the growling was ignored.Eventually she leart that there was no need to growl, we meant her no harm and offered food/love/pleasure.

I personally hate it when people I don't know come to close to me, I am long sighted and can't focus if people stand too close and this also makes me feel uncomfortable. Being a human and able to rationalise I remedy the situation by taking a step back wards, no doubt if I was a dog I would growl

May I just add that I very rarely shout at my dogs, I simply use a low, firm voice, and my dogs know what this means!

Nicely summed up there for me Mini .

Wys
x

This is something it took me many years to learn. When I took my one dog to a behaviourist about 12 years ago he explained that if he was growling & I shouted he saw this as support ie I was also telling the other dog off. Its taken a lot of practice to learn a low firm voice or noise, but I get it right most of the time.

I learned this too, thank god I did many years ago, the hard way I may add with my BC believe it or not, he was a wee git, it took some time for the penny to drop, thank god I new better before I took on the bigger breeds, that said there is nowt bigger than a BC in my book, rotts are so much easyer, lol