Ah, yet more taking quotes out of context to try and turn it into some sort of p*****g contest.

I also haven't once said anyone is wrong, I did say Evie was wrong about dogs being carnivorous only to which I still haven't seen evidence that I was wrong on that statement. So no idea where you are getting all these preconcepted ideas about me thinking that I know more than most around here, links please

Oh and again, thanks for insulting both my intelligence and my ability by again assuming that I lack hands on experience.

Quite the typical petty and pathetic post I have come to expected from around here, so hardly a surprise.

As for your problem dog in the hypothetical situation, is that meant to be some sort of test...?

Cos I have to be honest, I have sweet F.A. to prove to you and with regards to everything else on this forum, no matter what I reply to that situation with, will no doubt be so pedantically picked apart and again be judged and have assumptions made on my behalf, so in all honesty, I don't care much for trying to prove myself to people like you and I have no desire to answer your question.

If you like, you could start it up as a new topic instead of crashing this one... again, and who knows, maybe I'll answer it.

Okay sweetheart?

All the best.

XXX

But Steve, you are the one who came in being condescending, you are the one behaving as though others here could`nt tell a dog from a Thames barge

Your welcome

The difference being I expanded on things rather than limit them into one size fits all and all posts made by everyone are opinions - some just have more basis/experience than others

`Matey` ? Darn it how can I ever convince anyone that I`m ladylike when I get called `matey`

I did`nt mean you

Aye, very much so.

Steve, there is no point trying to use Malady and I as an example for you to score points, she and I know each other far too well for that and we are more than capable of telling each other what we think though she is stingy with raspberries of late which I must take up with her before I run out, and Shona come to think of it, she being the raspberry queen


ps Malady, it`s a swine quoting from quotes which are in the same response box, sort it out eh ?

hmm .. that's one severely damaged and thoroughly annoying ...err ...dog

Okay, I never opened this thread up with a condescending attitude, yet it's all I have been getting back from a lot of members, including yourself. Again, please show me where I have been condescending in this post, I never intended this post to be codescending, purely just to help. What a waste of f'king time that has clearly been, because so far, the only replies that seem to have kept coming back is from people who have assumed that I was being condescending and have tried to do ****** all excpet try and poke holes in a thread designed to help owners. Unfortunately, all the 'thank yous' that I have received have been swamped in the heavy criticisms that I have had, whereby my character, my training, my ability and my career have also all been poked fun at by some of the most ignorant and some of the most unwelcoming, incredibly rude people that I have ever had the misfortune to meet on the internet.

All because I wanted to try and help, which hardly warranted a 'serves you right' attitude adopted by some members.

I never said that the rule works on all dogs, again, that's you making another assumption about my one size fits all rule, I haven't once said that it was, thats you and some other problematic members who put those words into my mouth, so don't you think for one minute about using that as a counter argument, cos it's complete and utter bull****.

I wished I never created the topic, because it has done nothing but generate a completely biased debate from a lot of members who do walk around thinking they know more than everyone else, from what I have read and from what I have gathered, this does seem to be the general feel of the forums, and unfortunately for most, they think that members like you who have nothing better to do than to lecture everyone with your petty remarks and overinflated ego, spoil these forums, and I have found this all out from a number of members who have taken the time to beg me to stay, welcome me with the words that maybe I could help with my own experience around here and tell me to ignore all you sad, sad little people who get kicks out of trying to tell everyone what to think and how to treat a dog for crying out loud.

You can tell me to calm down and you can tell me that it's just a bit of banter, but let's not kid ourselves, it's not banter and it is enough to piss me off, so, stop trolling and kindly sod off and go and force your opinions on someone else with your high and mighty attitude.

Cos honestly, you and the rest of your high horse riding friends are boring the utter hell out of me and it's quite clear that most of you lot aren't good for these forums and those who read it.

Failing that, no doubt this post will be deleted and you lot will just keep on trying to disagree with me on anything you can, and nowhere to be seen when you do actually agree with something with me over.

All that I have derived since joining is that this forum isn't to help dog owners, it's for dog owners to brag about how much they know and disagree with anything and everything.

And I seriously hope someone could prove me wrong on that assumption.

Blimey - I didn't realise you met Hoki before she came to live with us

Steve it is rather insulting for everyone who has taken time to reply here for you to attack people and then admit you havent read all they wrote
Have you looked at the links evie gave you about raw feeding - they have stuff about carnivores omnivores

seeing as dogs have been living on our meat scraps for thousands of years (when they joind us in the hunt the woulda got meat - we wouldnt have taken the time to cook veggies and grains for them) and feeding kibble is far more modern I think it should be you proving that dogs are omnivores rather than the other way around

But
It is usually taken when the skull of a new animal is found to look at the teeth to figure out what the animals diet was
humans have some pointy teeth and some grindy teeth - omnivores
dogs have pointy teeth and their jaw only moves up and down not side to side = carnivores

Omnivores need vitamin C in their diet, carnivores synthesise it inside them - even kibble companies do not include vit C in their RDA's for dogs cos dogs dont need it

There is differences in carnivores - cats cannot live without meat (afaik) they cannot utalise any other sources of protien
dogs, when times are lean, can scavinge and get buy on lots of different things - except they cannot break down the cell walls in uncooked veggies - really I would expect a omnivore to be able to eat veggies and get nutritional benifit from them

Are wolves omnivores?? No. Is a dogs digestive tract much different? No

Carnivores have much shorter digestive tract cos meat digests fast
omnivores and herbivores have much longer digestive tract cos it is more difficult to digest veggies and carbs

I cant give you 'proof' if you are looking for websites cos basically most you will see is some 'recearch' done by people paid by kibble manufacturars 'proving' they are omnivores - in general raw feeders havent done the recearch
1. cos they dont have funds cos except for the BARF diet noone is really making money out of the advice on raw feeding
2. once you have been feeding raw for a couple of months you really dont need any more proof than the happy little carnivore


I am confused you say people have gone off topic and nitpicking (mind you I am getting threads mixed up) you talked about feeding, exercise and pack theory things in your opening post - that is what we are discussing

You knew not everyone would agree with you
I disagree on other points you put too but I have focused on the food because I am worried that you are recomending one type of food that isnt even considered all that good
I dont want to assume anything about how much work you have done on neutrition so I will just ask
How did you come to choose that particualr brand? what criteria do you use for a good dogfood? do you recomend that food to your paying clients?
(and before you turn it around - I have no qualifications in this but like most raw feeders I have done many many hours of recearch into dog feeding, what goes into dog food and why and what a dog really needs)

Mind you you prob aint even reading this

If she was like that....you've done brilliantly Hun xxxxxxxxx

Hi steve. I regard myslef as a level headed bloke too...and i like some of your ideas. But what strikes me with yourself is that you arent just happy to hold a discussion/debate, but you wish to dictate the terms of that debate. But things just dont work like that. You keep harking on about people taking stuff off-topic - but they havent, they have picked up on and expanded on issues/topics that you touched on in your posts. It doesnt really matter if it was your general arguement or specific details, if you put it forward as truth, its all valid for the challenge.
Your introductery post, albeit perfectly polite and fine, is indicative. You entitled it "another behaviorist added to the mix", come in fast and hard with your credentials, then educate us with "the" 3 rules of dog training (as by steve wishart, dog behaviourist).
Can you see how that comes over?
From this it strikes me as you thought you could come on this board (which you might have imagined was just a bunch of fluffies/pet owners ready for you to practice your practitioner skills on?) say hey folks, im a top behaviourist, impart some wisdom, and receive some instant respect???
I get the impression that becuase it didnt all go to plan and people simply cant be 'made' to 'see' that you are steve wishart, top dog behaviourist with the canine credentials, its kinda messed with your head and you've hit the frustration button...so you rationalise it all away by figuring that these people just cant mean it and dont really 'understand' or can't read properly, when really, they, maybe, they are also dog behaviourists/professionals, whose credentials/knowledge/skills/experience/ideas, maybe, dare it be admitted, equal or further than your own (in some or all areas?).
For the record, i think you are probably a good and skilled dog trainer, and do know your stuff, maybe even have a good take on canine psychology, you just dont have the wisdom of age, years, and experience behind you when it comes to the ability for a calm discussion about them, or the skills to cope if other people dont agree with your beliefs.

Mind your language please, youngsters read this forum too.

I don`t consider dogs are carnivores only either but I don`t beat Evie up over it, it is possible to agree to disagreee politely you know, you should try it some time perhaps, certainly with people who were not showing animosity toward you which Evie did`nt ?

You don`t need links for it, and its not a preconceived idea, your attitude which is creating that appearance is in all of your posts - flooding does`nt work well with people either Steve

That is what you are doing to everyone else - not nice is it....

Sadly your continually throwing a dummy from the pram is what I have come to expect from you

Of a sort, but perhaps it was too subtle

Oh but yes, you do have something to prove, as does everyone who suggests anything for other peoples dogs whether en-mass or individually, and for dogs owned by readers passing through, those dogs lives could depend on it.

It does`nt need to be a new thread, I think it already made its point


Steve, you don`t know me well enough to use that terminology, its not very professional of you to stoop to it, and its a rather clumsy mode to patronise, you need more practise at it

[ hint - calling a bitter divorcee `sweetheart` is not a good idea ]
It`s best to just stick to peoples posting names until you get to know who you can use affectionate terminologies on, [ with sincerity ], and who you can`t