|
Location: Wiltshire, UK
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,374
|
07-05-2009, 03:39 PM
Seems perfectly fine to me, but then I've been about long enough to have seen much worse.
|
|
Location: West Sussex
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,749
|
07-05-2009, 03:39 PM
Originally Posted by Magic 
Well, a thread was started on buying a trained dog, inviting input by others. But, there seems to be an awful lot of smug undertones - a bit like an answer for everything scenario? Before you launch into Moobli of how your ex was a police dog trainer (and how many times have we seen that one)? with all your apparent resources etc. (police dog pps), that you are having difficulties with such an elementary exercise as speak on command as you've posted on another thread?
That says it all for me I'm afraid!
People seem to be more interested in hearing the sound of their own voice.
I'm outta here!
.......................
|
|
|
Location: grangemouth for the moment
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 14,890
|
07-05-2009, 03:49 PM
Originally Posted by Magic
Well, a thread was started on buying a trained dog, inviting input by others. But, there seems to be an awful lot of smug undertones - a bit like an answer for everything scenario? Before you launch into Moobli of how your ex was a police dog trainer (and how many times have we seen that one)? with all your apparent resources etc. (police dog pps), that you are having difficulties with such an elementary exercise as speak on command as you've posted on another thread?
Another is a farmer, but I couldnt tell you how much 20/10 10 would need putting on a field, or 10/5 5
while with both of these ex's I ran pubs, but none of them could pull a pint or clean the pipes,
work is work.... most people leave it there,
did learn a few tricks between the sheets from both of them though...
trust me to lower the tone...lol
|
|
|
Location: Scotland
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 19,298
|
07-05-2009, 05:07 PM
Originally Posted by Magic
Well, a thread was started on buying a trained dog, inviting input by others. But, there seems to be an awful lot of smug undertones - a bit like an answer for everything scenario? Before you launch into Moobli of how your ex was a police dog trainer (and how many times have we seen that one)? with all your apparent resources etc. (police dog pps), that you are having difficulties with such an elementary exercise as speak on command as you've posted on another thread?
That says it all for me I'm afraid!
People seem to be more interested in hearing the sound of their own voice.
I'm outta here!
Regarding the bark on command thread Magic, as stated in that thread, I HAVE taught bark on command in the past with success (AND help!) but the methods used then were not working with my young GSD. I therefore asked for opinions. I fail to see what that has to do with a trained dog thread
If no-one ever spoke up on forums they would be pretty boring places to visit!
|
|
|
|
Location: Scotland
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 19,298
|
07-05-2009, 05:08 PM
Originally Posted by Shona
My ex is a full time musicain, I cant play a bloody note, can't sing worth a hoot,
Another is a farmer, but I couldnt tell you how much 20/10 10 would need putting on a field, or 10/5 5
while with both of these ex's I ran pubs, but none of them could pull a pint or clean the pipes,
work is work.... most people leave it there,
did learn a few tricks between the sheets from both of them though...
trust me to lower the tone...lol
|
|
|
|
Location: grangemouth for the moment
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 14,890
|
07-05-2009, 05:15 PM
Originally Posted by Moobli
Eh???! I am always polite and courteous in threads and don't think I ever come across as "smug". I wholeheartedly apologise if I have.
Regarding the bark on command thread Magic, as stated in that thread, I HAVE taught bark on command in the past with success (AND help!) but the methods used then were not working with my young GSD. I therefore asked for opinions. I fail to see what that has to do with a trained dog thread
If no-one ever spoke up on forums they would be pretty boring places to visit!
but it can be nice to come on and ask others how they do things, I have had loads of great ideas on here from members
|
|
|
|
Location: dogsville
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,141
|
07-05-2009, 05:30 PM
Originally Posted by Ramble
I am more than aware that clicker gun dog training exists
No I do not 'work' my dogs...I don't want to and have no need to...but I do know many, many ,many people that do work their dogs.
I wondered how you defined 'working' dogs as you seem to think that 'proper' working dogs lead an idyllic sort of life and that if they are not being treated properly then they are not proper working dogs....it confused me as I don't think that is the case. There are many working dogs out there that are not well treated.
Take the gun dogs...that go picking up etc twice a week in the season...how do you think their lives are the rest of the time?
I have no doubt that some working dogs have a far better life than some pet dogs...but I also have no doubt that a lot of pet dogs have a far better life than some working dogs.
As I say I know a LOT of people who work their gundogs and 98% of them are exceptionally well treated, they live in and work hard. 
(Many go picking up a minimum of twice a week in the season...their owners however would not refer to them as working gundogs...they would still say they were their pets 
)As for the forced fetch issue...like ye...they advertise on the internet.... I'll just send you a link!!!!!!
As I said...I have nothing more to say on the thread as I won't say anymore than I have....I also won't change my mind. I answered your post as I didn't want to appear rude by not doing.
The thread has gone totally off topic and I don't want to get involved in the whole working dog issue (again) so I'm off.
Originally Posted by labradork
Waiting with baited breath.
I note again Labradork that you only comment on the bits you want to.....
Originally Posted by Shona
I know round this way, gundog trainers have a rep for being harsh/hard on dogs,
e-collars sadly are not a thing of the past.
Originally Posted by Moobli
So do you think being brought out to work and then put back in a kennel is being treated badly? A lot depends on the working dogs you are talking about. Most proper working dogs are out with their owners/handlers all day, doing a job that they no doubt love. I can't speak for others obviously, but do know that our working sheepdogs are on their kennels at night and during the day for a rest. I would hate to think how many pet dogs are cooped up in a house all day (many in one room or a crate) - many for 8, 9 or even 10 hours or more, with little to stimulate them. I know which I would prefer
Do you know the ins and outs of your new dog's previous life? How do you know she didn't lead an exciting life? Not wanting to pry, but am genuinely interested
Also, how do you know her previous owner cared about her?I am sorry but have to disagree that there is a tendency for working dogs to be treated with less respect and care than is afforded to many pet dogs. Where are your experiences of this coming from? I have seen the odd case of a working dog not being given the necessary care and respect that I would like to see, and it was heartbreaking. However, it isn't something I have witnessed very often thank goodness!
Which training methods are you meaning? Working sheepdogs are, in general, trained in a very hands off way. You have to be firm but fair to get the best out of the dog IMO. Police dog training has come a long, long way in a few short years and is now all positive reinforcement - without a check chain, ecollar etc in sight. I know very little about gundog training though, so cannot comment.
I know you aren't talking personally here Ailsa
We always enjoy these discussions without falling out, so I hope this time will be no different
I have experience of working dogs...not all good. I am also aware of the training of a lot of working dogs...again, not all good. Certainly not all bad...but not all good.
Originally Posted by Moobli
But who is suggesting that all working dogs have a wonderful life? Not me! The working dogs that I have personal experience of DO have a wonderful life, but that isn't to say there aren't plenty that are not properly cared for or looked after
I know many dogs who don't work who have a fantastic, first class life ...
I also know of many non working dogs who have a rubbish existence ..
Fair?
Originally Posted by labradork
I am out of touch? perhaps I should have put those methods are rarely used in this country -- happy now? with the greatest of respects, given the breeds of dog that you own, how do know whether methods such as force fetch are applied to gundogs in this country? I would be interested to know.
What is wrong with saying 'waiting with baited breath?'? crikey, if you think I am being "venomous" with that comment you need a grow a pair.
Originally Posted by Magic
Well, a thread was started on buying a trained dog, inviting input by others. But, there seems to be an awful lot of smug undertones - a bit like an answer for everything scenario? Before you launch into Moobli of how your ex was a police dog trainer (and how many times have we seen that one)? with all your apparent resources etc. (police dog pps), that you are having difficulties with such an elementary exercise as speak on command as you've posted on another thread?
That says it all for me I'm afraid!
People seem to be more interested in hearing the sound of their own voice.
I'm outta here!
I think there can be (not necessarily from people on here) a tendency for those who work their dogs, or those who train dogs to work, to see themeselves as people who truly understand dogs...as people who understand dogs heaps better than those who 'just' have pets. Such people think that 'working' dogs are different to other dogs...they are proper dogs that have wonderful lives...but that need to be handled 'properly' not like pets are.Such dogs need firmer handling techniques (apparently) than 'pet' dogs..as they need to work, not just lie by the fire.
I have encountered this attitude with lots of different types of 'working dog' people...(I hasten to add their comments have included me as one of them for some pecualiar reason...)
I find such attitudes frustrating and appalling in many ways...this tendency to assume that people who have pets really don't understand dogs. Why wouldn't they?
Anyhow...I promised not to go on but just wanted to comment further.
This really is my last post on this....
|
|
|
|
Location: West Sussex
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,749
|
07-05-2009, 05:47 PM
And no, I didn't get the 'irony' in your post. You said people use force fetching in this country. I was wondering if you had any first hand experience in this or could provide any information about it. I would assume you wouldn't say it without experiencing it first hand.
|
|
|
|
Location: dogsville
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,141
|
07-05-2009, 05:51 PM
Originally Posted by labradork
Have you personally seen gundog trainers using force fetch? ear pinching, toe pinching and whatever else Americans use? I genuinely have not seen force fetching in this country and I have been to a fair number of classes, working tests and shoots over the years. I have seen plenty of 'old school' trainers that are unnecessarily harsh - sure. But I have not seen force fetching, ever.
And no, I didn't get the 'irony' in your post. You said people use force fetching in this country. I was wondering if you had any first hand experience in this or could provide any information about it. I would assume you wouldn't say it without experiencing it first hand.
Suffice to say...of course it happens in this country. It doesn't necessarily happne at a 'class' or working test or shoot. Some things are used elsewhere....
Now with the best will in the world...I am not participating in this anymore..I've said my bit and am sayng no more.
|
|
|
|
Location: West Sussex
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,749
|
07-05-2009, 05:59 PM
Originally Posted by Ramble
No you asked me to point you in the direction of people who use the method in this country...I said of course..they advertise it...it was ironic. Of course they wouldn't advertise it and by the same token I am not about to come on a thread like this and say where it happens and who with....
Suffice to say...of course it happens in this country. It doesn't necessarily happne at a 'class' or working test or shoot. Some things are used elsewhere....
Now with the best will in the world...I am not participating in this anymore..I've said my bit and am sayng no more.
I am genuinely fascinated because as I say, I have never seen these methods being used.
|
|