DA and a game dog are completely different.

Sal,

What does DA mean? Am I thick or what - I don't know.

Do you know about game blood lines? Loving the link.

DA,Dog aggression

Basically

Hi Sal,

Thank you very much for your kind assistance.

dog-dog aggression - SBTs - gameness blood lines:

Having considered your comment a couple of things come to mind.

Firstly, I cannot imagine any puppy not feeling fear and running away from a perceived threat (I had a kitten once that didn't run away from threats, quite simply because it had been damaged by the birthing process). Therefore, at most, gameness could be an inherited trait.

Secondly, police dogs (different breeds are common) are trained to have this 'gameness' as are their handlers (police persons). There is no point however giving someone a uniform without making sure they wear the 'hat' as well. As I said before in this thread the attitude of the owner will affect the dog's behaviour - if the owner is stressed the dog will sense this and be unsettled (fear) and if the owner displays 'gameness' - so will the dog.

I think therefore that (despite any inherited traits) 'gameness' can be socialised into a dog, as can fear.

I also think that fear in an animal is a dangerous thing (cornered rat etc).

I don't know what this has to do with SBTs in particular however!!!???????

Surley breed does influence. In every breed there are dogs where the breed traits are stronger in some than others. So some staffies will have inheritied a tenadancy to be dog aggressive? and some dogs will have more 'drive' than others? (whatever the breed) Then its up to the owner from there....?

Hi Sal, if you're still there/or anyone



Following on from your comment above and my previous thoughts:

Yes, definitely - Gameness is acquired and is a virtue - it is not aggression.

That is a very good quote - I shall remember this point.


Right - SBTs and dog-dog aggression (gameness has nothing to do with this).

Perhaps Battersea Dogs Home, with it's 43% SBT residency would know best - maybe it's a real hell-hole!!

They must rehome some - maybe they come with a little warning tag??????

Any ideas?

My bitch is DA after been attacked and her aggression is out of fear,this is not gameness but aggression.

My boy same breed,entire, is dog friendly.
SBT's when challenged don't as a rule back down,but neither do they go out of there way to start fights,but they will fight like other breeds if the circumstances are correct,they can do alot of damage in a short amount of time,this is why responsible sensible owners will seperate there dogs when they are not around.
I think we need to remember the history of the breed and that certain dogs will not tolerate other dogs.

Some individuals of all breeds can be DA.

Sorry i am later getting back to the post, what i was saying about bloodlines is a lot of staffs were bred and cross bred for fighting so this created certain bloodlines of choice for people who fight there dogs. now usually people who dog fight do not sell the dogs or pups to joe bloggs they are kept with in there own circle, if they have pups that are no good to them they cull them end of story, but certain kennels started selling pups to joe blogg then these back yard breeders started breeding them, thats why certain unpapered staffs are dog aggressive..

Hi Dogseys,

Beyond 'Deed not Breed'.

From what I can gather on this forum SBTs and dog-dog aggression is not inevitable. Thank you forumites, especially Sal.

If aggression is fear based then I think it would depend on environmental circumstances of each and every dog, regardless of breed.

Unfortunately 'deed not breed' does not yet accommodate individual circumstances (whether fear or gameness or anything else). It just shifts blame - there is no understanding. My dog is terrified of baths (he got put in one accidentally that was too hot), he is scared of car travel because he gets motion sickness, he is terrified of being attacked by another dog because he has been attacked. We love him as a family because all of this is who he is. I don't need him to be perfect - but these days I need the rest of the world to have a bit more tolerance, and he is not even a SBT.

I think it is important therefore that the 'hype' surrounding SBTs and dogs in general disappears rapidly as it can only adversely affect dogs, their owners, and everyone else as it just becomes a vicious circle.

I fully support WSPA and their 5 animal 'rights', which goes beyond deed not breed.

Well firstly dogs are dogs first, breeds second! You cannot tar ALL of one breed with the same brush!

There is a staff that goes to my Agility and Obediece classes and she is an utterly amazing little dog, I mean this dog learns commands so fast, she is besotted by her owner and listens to every word she says, she absolutely loves all people, and is VERY dog friendly. Infact my dog, Jazz, and this staff, Diesel, are inseperable and love to run around like maddies and play! Although as she is a very fit staff made of pure muscle the owner has to watch who her dog plays with as she can end up hurting dogs if she gets over excited.


Also!! Going into the breed thing:

I have border collies, border collies were bred for herding sheep, this means people originally selectively breed energetic dogs who can run for hours, and dogs who had a strong instinct to chase and were confident enough to keep the sheep in line. Therefore border collies are more likely very hyper, uncontrollable and nippier than other dogs due to what they were bred for in the first place. Although so long as you keep them occupied and their brain active, and discourage nipping and chasing they are amazing dogs. But often they get in the wrong hands.

Jack russells for instance were bred for chasing foxes out that had gone to ground. This meant the dogs had to be hardy dogs that had the courage to face anything and had to have an aggresiveness and strong confident bark. Therefore jack russells can be known for being yaps that are prone to going for anything regardless of size. But this only happens when people do not socialise and train their dog sufficiently! People seem to be unaware how important socialisation is.

On the other end of the scale there are Beagles who were bred for hunting hare and rabbit. They had to be fast, have a strong sense of smell and a chase instinct. Therefore beagles are more likely to run off and not listen as well due to their enhanced sense of smell and stong chase instinct, however notice beagles are rarely aggresive, this is because they were not bred to be so.

As for Staffies they were originally bred for dog fighting and ratting, aggresive, confident, big built but fast traits were selected for. This means these dogs when in the wrong hands can become aggresive to other animals, although rarely people as this was not bred into them. HOWEVER as with all breeds these traits only become dominant if the owners do not put time into there dogs, you must train, socialise and exercise ALL dogs! But unfortunately staffies have this image due to some idiots getting them because they 'look cool' due to their muscular build and these people want them to be aggresive for their image. Staffies are also overbred therefore many spend alot of their life in shelters where, due to no fault of the workers, they don't get enough time spent on them.


Lesson to be learnt? If you are getting any breed of dog you must be aware of what it was bred for and make sure you train, socialise and exercise them!


Ps. Chihuahuas and yorkies etc are also aggresive, the only real reason people focus on german shepards, rottweiler, staffies etc is because they do more damage and when a little dog runs up to another dog it is seen as 'cute' or 'just playing'. The amount of times I hear that! And people wonder why my dog growls? If that was a rottweiler running up barking and biting it would NOT be seen as playing.


All comes down to silly owners... Makes my blood boil. HA!