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Ripsnorterthe2nd
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28-02-2012, 01:15 AM
This is an interesting page re Cesky's and COI, off topic I know, but interesting!
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Ben Mcfuzzylugs
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28-02-2012, 01:22 AM
Originally Posted by JoedeeUK View Post
Just the opposite in fact, this is a new breed started in 1949 & this is why the COI is so high-it's a Czech breed developed for hunting & showing. The breed goes back to just 3 dogs
I just saw your other post about it above
I was only responding to what was written. But if that is the case its even worse, why limit it to so many founding dogs?
It's good the dogs were healthy and they seem to have avoided much of the genetic problems
But the dogs will all be so similar, no genetic diversity, so very similar imune systems so a high chance that they could catch something that would wipe them all out
Also with that level of close inbreeding I can't help but wonder about the fertility, litter size and cancer statistics for the breed?
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Velvetboxers
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28-02-2012, 01:43 AM
Originally Posted by Ripsnorterthe2nd View Post
In short the likely answer is no (judging by the look of the dogs), which is sort of my point.

Aside from that I thought the programme was interesting. Not necessarily factually correct, but interesting. I guess I just don't like tabloid journalists.
I just found it sad that not a lot appears to have changed and ultimately it is the poor dog that suffers
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Velvetboxers
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28-02-2012, 01:45 AM
Originally Posted by Dobermann View Post
And that is my point. A breeder, vet and breed council member letting his breed (and people/families) down. If someone should be using influence to improve standards it should be someone like him should it not, never mind not submitting the bloods..
I notice you didn't include my answer to Murfs
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rubylover
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28-02-2012, 01:48 AM
Originally Posted by JoedeeUK View Post
That was from the original program & the breeder has stopped showing & breeding

JH as usual only gave half the facts, the 70% was from this quote



IE 90% of the dogs in the research had CM & between 30% & 70% of them have SM

I am still getting through the thread but if this has not been addressed the quote of 70% is on solid ground. From a 2011 study of 555 UK cavaliers, reported by their owners to be symptom-less - 25% of one year olds and 70% of 6+ year olds had SM.

"The evidence for a lower prevalence in younger animals is more reliable (because of the higher numbers included in the present study and the lower likelihood of false inclusion) and this effect lasts until dogs are at least three years of age. This finding has important implications for the design of a screening test procedure and may conflict with the current recommendations that the optimum age for screening should be 30 months. These data would imply that it is probable that dogs aged up to three years may yet have reduced odds for the diagnosis of syringomyelia. However, there is a need for the dogs to be creened when they are reasonably young so that breeders can decide at an early stage whether their animals are suitable for breeding; many breeders would consider 36 months unduly old. ... The high lifetime prevalence of syringomyelia raises concerns for the welfare of the CKCS breed and also suggests that eliminating the genetic risk factors for the disease by selective breeding may be difficult, because the heritability has previously been shown to be complex, and the prevalence of the determinant genes within the population is therefore likely to be high. The true prevalence of syringomyelia in the general CKCS population is expected to be higher than that found in this sample population because symptomatic dogs were specifically excluded. "
http://www.cavalierhealth.org/syring..._555_cavaliers

http://veterinaryrecord.bmj.com/cont...06/12/vr.d1726

Ruby
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rubylover
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28-02-2012, 01:53 AM
Originally Posted by Velvetboxers View Post
You could write to the producers of the show and ask ?
The footage of the tricolor cavalier is archived footage. I was studying SM long before PDE and had seen that clip then. The other Cavalier was Silvie.

Jemima has been asked which dogs were pet bred and the only one was the epileptic Boxer.

I have yet to see any source of the other two mentioned although some here insist on saying then that they must have been BYB or puppyfarm bred. I'd like to see evidense of that.

As their role in the film is simply to exemplify the pain and suffering that some pet owners and their dogs are going through it doesn't much matter either way.

I could easily list the names of numerous show bred Cavaliers that have had screaming fits and scratch much the same.

Ruby
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Velvetboxers
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28-02-2012, 01:53 AM
Originally Posted by Dobermann View Post
I fail to see how that is unfeeling tbh

Edit, and I went on his site...only comments on the wonderful ch's they bred, no comment on the programme/his position etc
Why did you feel it necessary to quote my post - as below


Quote:
Originally Posted by Velvetboxers
First and foremost he is a Vet - perhaps you are lucky and have healthy dogs not affected by hereditary or congenital conditions. He spoke with conviction regarding the health & welfare of pedigree dogs.

Quote by Dobermann Its just a shame the boxer breeder who is also a vet didn't care so much about hereditary issues...end quote
I was replying to someone else's post about the vet - Mark Evans on the programme.
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bijou
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28-02-2012, 06:58 AM
Ok - here are my thoughts :
  • some pretty disgusting behaviour from the Boxer breeders who need to step up to the plate and have their dogs tested and be more honest about the problem in their lines

  • pretty horrible footage of the Brachy breeds featured - I'll confess I'm constantly puzzled why these are amongst the most popular breeds with registrations that are going through the roof - but hey the puiblic's appetite for Pugs/Bull dogs/Frenchies and almost ALL the flat faced breeds seems insatiable

  • more frantic foaming at the mouth from Mark 'Mad eye' Evans ( is he some kind of joke ? )


  • Sheila Crispin underlining yet again just what a complete waste of time the Dog Advisory Council is ( I mean WHAT is this body for ? )

  • some pretty irrelevant stuff on the Dally cross - what exactly was JH's point here ? -the dog's here and it's been KC registered - so what if some folk in the breed don't agree ?

  • an over emphasis on the show sector - the title was PEDIGREE dogs exposed 2 - yet no mention of where most pedigree dogs are sourced from - why ?

  • and lastly - frankly - I found it mostly rehashed stuff from the first programme and boring in parts - does it represent me or most of the pedigree show breeders I know - nope !!
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Chris
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28-02-2012, 07:29 AM
Originally Posted by bijou View Post
[/LIST][*]some pretty irrelevant stuff on the Dally cross - what exactly was JH's point here ? -the dog's here and it's been KC registered - so what if some folk in the breed don't agree ?
The thing I found relevant about this inclusion was the difficulty the breeder had in getting the dog registered and the opposition to it from the breed club. That particular out-crossing seems to have worked and worked without any detriment in respect of introducing other possible conditions.

The thing I found interesting about this inclusion was that out-crossing and subsequent matings to bring back to the Dally shape and traits that we know and love has done nothing detrimental to the breed, but has improved it health-wise.

It is quite startling, to me at least, that there was so much resistance to it.
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alexgirl73
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28-02-2012, 08:20 AM
Originally Posted by bijou View Post
Ok - here are my thoughts :
  • some pretty disgusting behaviour from the Boxer breeders who need to step up to the plate and have their dogs tested and be more honest about the problem in their lines

  • pretty horrible footage of the Brachy breeds featured - I'll confess I'm constantly puzzled why these are amongst the most popular breeds with registrations that are going through the roof - but hey the puiblic's appetite for Pugs/Bull dogs/Frenchies and almost ALL the flat faced breeds seems insatiable


    [*]more frantic foaming at the mouth from Mark 'Mad eye' Evans ( is he some kind of joke ? )



  • Sheila Crispin underlining yet again just what a complete waste of time the Dog Advisory Council is ( I mean WHAT is this body for ? )

  • some pretty irrelevant stuff on the Dally cross - what exactly was JH's point here ? -the dog's here and it's been KC registered - so what if some folk in the breed don't agree ?

  • an over emphasis on the show sector - the title was PEDIGREE dogs exposed 2 - yet no mention of where most pedigree dogs are sourced from - why ?

  • and lastly - frankly - I found it mostly rehashed stuff from the first programme and boring in parts - does it represent me or most of the pedigree show breeders I know - nope !!
So someone who is extremely passionate, someone who has likely seen hundreds if not thousands of suffering dogs, is a joke? Actually I think he was one of those talking the most sense on that programme, one of those concerned with the dogs welfare rather than pandering to over inflated egos who think they know best, when all they are concerned with is their dogs ability to win them pretty ribbons!
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