"people who continue breeding despite having been made aware by at least 2 of their new owners that their dogs have serious life limiting hereditary conditions
people who let 2 sires get to a dam and then register the pups despite not haing a clue who the real sire is"

That's a bit too accurate to be a general comment.
Becky

im sure that statement applies to a WHOLE lot of breeders, of all breed, anywhere

id like to point out that i am absolutly by no means anti breeding. i know some absolutly fab breeders who if i was looking for a pup, i wouldnt hesitate to go to, and baing a HUGE fan of my breed, i can totally see how breeding is THE most important thing when thinking about preserving that breed. I just see the other sie too, and i see the utter devestation left behind when the inevitable happens afer someone chooses to breed without any care or consideration.
while my dogs are all rescues, i have bought a pup in the past but only after a huge amount of research into the breeder & their ethics. i think a lot of bad breeders are very clever and good at disguising the real truth about what they do, which is the problem, if you buy a pup at a motorway service station there is no doubt that you are taking part in somthing dodgy, however when people present the image of being a good breeder, can talk the talk, have thedogs, & sound initially like they know what they aredoing, it is very easy for the general unsuspecting public to buy a dog fromthem in good faith that they are buying from a responsible breeder when infact its anything but
just to reitterate my point, i am in no way anti breeding. just very much pro responsible breeding.
what do you think would happen to our breeds in 10 or 20 years time if these people had a free hand at pumping out dogs? you wouldnt find a boxer without a bad heart or a rottie without bad hips. these folk are ruining our breed. i think that needs to be at the forefront of this discussion.

Bad breeders have had a free hand in pumping out puppies for 100's of years and they haven't ruined the good ones.
I don't see why, as a newcomer, you've come on here having a go at Toni when all I can see is that she has done the responsible thing!
Becky

Your talking to an x owner of a boxer who was born with a bad heart, but damage by any breeder can happen in any breed.
That is why i didn't breed from my leo's.....due to hip scores.

yep thats exactly my point.
there is a high enough incidence of pups born with health problems that are UNAVOIDABLE, so whats the need to DELIBERATLY breed from dogs that you know carry a hereditary condition. anyone who truely loves their breed should be trying everything that they can to decrease the numbers of pups with these conditions.

and i have at no time attacked toni in this post, or any. you guys need to visit the post where SHE attacked me, remember, telling me to 'get out' and calling me a 'self righteous so called dog lover (that one really made me laugh lol) although it seems that on dogsey new members have less rights than regular members.

it seems to be you guys that are making the associations between my post on this topic, my general idea of the type of breeders that need to be stopped, and toni. thats interesting!

New members are welcomed and have the same rights as the oldies.
The rules are there for all of us, my point is with b (boxer) if the breeders knew their was a risk of heart problems and still bred, yes bad breeding.
If they didn't and it just happened to affect 1 of 8 pups, then how can i call them bad breeders.
Some breeders knowing she had a bad heart, would have had her pts, but she lived a happy and forfilled life until we lost her at 9 yrs old.
Should she have been given the chance to live..........yes and whats more her heart never stopped her.

absolutly, anyone can breed a pup with a bad heart, but the likihood of it happening with a dog that has previously produced pups with same condition should not be bred again. Im referringto breeders who dont even test. now if you were a good breeder, even a half decent breeder breeding a breed with a perticular gereditary condition, you would at least have your dogs properly scored / tested by a cardiologist / speciaist, and have their certificates available to potential owners, and their names would be on the appropriate registers. its the other type imreferring to.

and i think any breeder that would put a dog to sleep becasue of a genetic condition that made it unsuitable for breeding who also very much fall into same catagory. thats someone in it for themoney not for the love of their dogs & breed!

I dont think anyone of us, would disagree with any of that...I would have thought we are all pro responsible breeding.



Where is Toni`s name mentioned in her thread??
and the last time I looked we all had a right to voice an
opinion, new members or not.

This tread is about breeding, granted the original poster sems to have lost me on her standing, if no body bred, we would soon be without any breeds, and if someone wants to buy a pedigree pooch over a X breed , or a puppy over a rescue than that is their choice, they are enough of each to go round.

But it is the unethical breeder that cause most of our unwanted dog problems, churning puppies out by the litter load, giving no thought to health, or where those pups are going to end up, as long as they make money , that is all that matter.

I'm sorry the post was too specific, I don't believe that the posts were 'in general'.
I will therefore not be contributing to this thread anymore.
Becky