No, what I meant was that I would not force a dog to stand still by means of physical force to have her bum sniffed.

It doesn't mimic anything a dog does at all as dogs do not jab each other. With regards to you claiming you have seen many bitches bite their pups then I would question their temperament. None of my bitches have ever bitten any of their pups.
Becky

Originally Posted by Wysiwyg
Indeed, but what I don't really get is why. Yes the Smithsonian may have done what they did but if scientists who are highly reputable in the field are not using that classification - well, to me it says a lot. Oh well, pointless debating it really...!

Wys
x

Ah Ok that doesn't sound very good handling to me.

Have to watch it though.

Wys
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Why would anyone reprimand their dog for growling when another dog sniffs its rear end?

Maggie sometimes does this, she did it today. It's her way of letting the other dog know she's not best pleased about it. The other dog backs off and she then instigated the sniffing on her terms. Sometimes she is in charge and sometimes the other dog is. It depends on who the other dog is.

I wouldn't tell her off for her reaction as this is her way of communicating. Why would anyone else?

I really don't understand why he'd do this. It seems more than ridiculous to me. He's trying to make dogs use their own language when they themselves have deemed it not useful (for whatever reason). Yet he thinks he knows better. Has me scratching my head, that one.

I recall when he said a raise paw was dominance - it's well documented that it is not dominance at all, if anything it's the opposite. It is an appeasement gesture (in context, clearly not if the dog's trodden on a thistle or something ).

Wys
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Yes, I certainly allow my girl to tell another dog off if it's being too pushy .... I've no problem with it, because it's natural and not aggressive. I don't encourage it though nor do I put her in situations where she will have to keep doing it ( ie if a dog keeps bothering her).

Wys
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I would indeed Becky. Because he is MY dog and I expect that behaviour from him. He lives in my house and he abides by my rules, which are firm but fair. He knows these rules, I NEVER have to use force, and neither would I. I would NEVER pin him down, or physically restrain him in order to "allow" him to let another dog sniff his parts.

I compare this seemingly unfair rigid discipline, for want of a better phrase, to the mindless square bashing that the squaddies have to endure when they first join the army. There seems to be absolutely no point to it. Who cares whether you can see your face or your **** in the shine of your boots? But this is how it is. The Sargent Major is the Alpha Male, He Who Must Be Obeyed, the Pack Leader. After weeks of this mindless square bashing and polishing, a highly disciplined and very effective troop of young men will be let loose in Afghanistan or Basra, and then they discover the raison d'etre behind the square bashing and polishing. Suddenly, the automatic and unthinking obeying of the orders that fly through the air during a roadside ambush is saving lives. Without that mindless square bashing and polishing, the young squaddies would not have been capable in the face of enemy fire to be able to respond so quickly and unthinkingly. This sort of discipline saves lives.

A very over the top analogy, but the point I am making that however unfair the order, my dog will obey ... he might be naughty at sitting first time at the kerb, or he might try it on when he is on the lead, but when the chips are down and I am ASKING (not ordering) him to not retaliate when an unsocialised dog is giving him a hard time, or indeed the other way round, when HE is giving an unsocialised dog a hard time, I can stop him from doing so before escalation occurs into something more serious. This is the equivalent to the discipline of the square bashing IMO.

You know me Wys, stubborn as a mule ! If God himself refuted the Smithsonian's classification (is it with a y or an i, I can never remember!), I would still argue with it, simply because I know what I have seen with my own eyes ... and in some cases, lived with too.

Becky, I KNOW they don't. The secret is in the word "mimic". I explained I think that we cannot go round biting our dogs of course Next best thing IMO is the CM bite.

And I did not say that my bitch bit her puppies, I said reprimanded I believe, or nipped? I have seen many other bitches in particular doing this, with other bitches' pups. How odd that are experiences are so different.