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Nicci_L
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02-08-2010, 09:47 PM
Originally Posted by Crysania View Post
This is an excellent page:

http://www.kitsap-humane.org/truth-about-pit-bulls

I thought this part was most important to this discussion, since there has been a lot of mention of dog aggression:
As good as the article may be, it still don't really answer why Fila's are not only dog but human aggressive, this has been told/confirmed to me on many occasions by people that own them, you only have to scour threads on another website to have that confirmed.

One of them being attacked by her own dog, which was a titled dog in Schutzhund
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Crysania
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02-08-2010, 09:52 PM
Originally Posted by Nicci_L View Post
As good as the article may be, it still don't really answer why Fila's are not only dog but human aggressive, this has been told/confirmed to me on many occasions by people that own them, you only have to scour threads on another website to have that confirmed.

One of them being attacked by her own dog, which was a titled dog in Schutzhund
Without being there it's impossible to theorize as to what happened. It can be a combination of many factors, some genetic (low threshold) and the environment they're raised in. The dog could have been in pain and she didn't know it. The list could go on and on, but really no one knows unless they were there (and even then they may not know).

However, in looking on the web, this might have something to do with it:

"A lot of Fila fanciers recommend stopping all socialization at age 4 months. When a canine puppies socialization stops at such a young age it molds their temperament into an anti-social dog. This is the end goal for many Fila owners as it is the breeds trademark so to speak. "
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Nicci_L
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02-08-2010, 09:54 PM
Originally Posted by Crysania View Post
Without being there it's impossible to theorize as to what happened. It can be a combination of many factors, some genetic (low threshold) and the environment they're raised in. The dog could have been in pain and she didn't know it. The list could go on and on, but really no one knows unless they were there (and even then they may not know).

However, in looking on the web, this might have something to do with it:

"A lot of Fila fanciers recommend stopping all socialization at age 4 months. When a canine puppies socialization stops at such a young age it molds their temperament into an anti-social dog. This is the end goal for many Fila owners as it is the breeds trademark so to speak. "

And I found this...

The Brazilian show warns judges not to touch this breed if they wish to keep their fingers, as most in Brazil are used for protection.
Taken from the new translated Brazilian Breed Standard..

TEMPERAMENT: It is a courageous, determinate and daring dog. It does not hide its
aversion to strangers, or its traditional tenderness to its owners and family. Consequently it
is an unexceedable watch dog in the cities, and an excellent herds dog and a hunter of big
animals in farms. As a result of its temper, at dog shows it does not allow the judge (a
stranger) to touch it. And if it attacks the judge, such a reaction must not be considered a
fault, but only a confirmation of its temperament.
At temper tests, obligatory for dogs over
one year old at shows, the Fila attack must be in an ascending diagonal, in front of handler
and without showing dependence from him.
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tazer
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04-08-2010, 05:26 PM
Originally Posted by Nicci_L View Post
And I found this...



Taken from the new translated Brazilian Breed Standard..
I find that seemingly mainstream acceptance of the breeds apparent tendency twoards human directed agression to be quite worrying.

Normally, within breeds bred to guard for example, the good ethical breeders will stress the importants of socialising a puppy/dog to a variety of environments and to al kinds of people. Whilst this is no guarantee that the dog won't grow up to have a strong guarding instinct, it should hopefully be a well balanced in temperament enough to tell what is a genuine threat from what isn't.

Personally, I'd say stopping any dog of any breeds socialisation at 4 months old would be unwise, and in the case of the fila I'd go as far as to say it is damn irresponsible.

Now I'm not normally one for the what ifs. But, what if, given that it seems to be perfectly acceptable for dogs of this breed to display human agression, one of these dogs got loose, and the owner was at work say, so wasn't aware, and therefore couldn't do anything about it...I'll leave the rest up to your imagination.

Maybe we should start a thread for the fila, as it is quite ot.
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Benzmum
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04-08-2010, 05:32 PM
A bit off topic (sorry) I have to confess to not knowing a lot about the Fila until this thread provoked me to look more into them. They do look quite stunning but it does seem a worrying trend about socialisation etc I found the following quote
***** the Fila at 1 ½ years old. His owner states, "He is everything I just read here on this site about Filas. He absolutely adores my kids and even a few of their friends. But only the friends that were around him before he turned about 8 months old. He weighs about 170 lbs. and is fawn colored. He is the ultimate guard dog. Very few people get near our home
Maybe a fila thread or a Section 1 banned breed discussion thread?
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Nicci_L
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04-08-2010, 05:47 PM
Originally Posted by tazer View Post
I find that seemingly mainstream acceptance of the breeds apparent tendency twoards human directed agression to be quite worrying.

Normally, within breeds bred to guard for example, the good ethical breeders will stress the importants of socialising a puppy/dog to a variety of environments and to al kinds of people. Whilst this is no guarantee that the dog won't grow up to have a strong guarding instinct, it should hopefully be a well balanced in temperament enough to tell what is a genuine threat from what isn't.

Personally, I'd say stopping any dog of any breeds socialisation at 4 months old would be unwise, and in the case of the fila I'd go as far as to say it is damn irresponsible.

Now I'm not normally one for the what ifs. But, what if, given that it seems to be perfectly acceptable for dogs of this breed to display human agression, one of these dogs got loose, and the owner was at work say, so wasn't aware, and therefore couldn't do anything about it...I'll leave the rest up to your imagination.

Maybe we should start a thread for the fila, as it is quite ot.
May be a good idea, but then again maybe someone in the UK responsible for the DDA actually took time to read the descriptions of them, hence them being covered by the DDA - I like the breed a lot, not sure about the aggression side of things though, so doubt I'd ever be in the position of owning one ever. I like my hands and arms and other body parts exactly where they are
That is one of two breed standards, and while the other one isn't quite as descriptive, I find the standards rather worrying, especially the dogs coming directly from Brazil, which of whom would be covered by the above standard.
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tazer
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04-08-2010, 09:08 PM
Originally Posted by Nicci_L View Post
May be a good idea, but then again maybe someone in the UK responsible for the DDA actually took time to read the descriptions of them, hence them being covered by the DDA - I like the breed a lot, not sure about the aggression side of things though, so doubt I'd ever be in the position of owning one ever. I like my hands and arms and other body parts exactly where they are
That is one of two breed standards, and while the other one isn't quite as descriptive, I find the standards rather worrying, especially the dogs coming directly from Brazil, which of whom would be covered by the above standard.
I'll start a thread for them in the non recognized breeds section then.

I'm actually surprized someone bothered to look them up at all, never mind decide they should be banned too. As as far as I'm aware, there wasn't any in the country at the time the dda was introduced, and I'm not sure if there ever have been any over here. Which also surprizes me, as I'd have thought they'd be a prime target for the idiot wanting a hard dog to threaten people with.
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Nicci_L
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04-08-2010, 09:48 PM
Originally Posted by tazer View Post
I'll start a thread for them in the non recognized breeds section then.

I'm actually surprized someone bothered to look them up at all, never mind decide they should be banned too. As as far as I'm aware, there wasn't any in the country at the time the dda was introduced, and I'm not sure if there ever have been any over here. Which also surprizes me, as I'd have thought they'd be a prime target for the idiot wanting a hard dog to threaten people with.
I've put the standard up in this section a few minutes ago - it is one of two standards but put the revised new translated Brazilian one up to be debated
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tazer
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04-08-2010, 10:15 PM
Originally Posted by Nicci_L View Post
I've put the standard up in this section a few minutes ago - it is one of two standards but put the revised new translated Brazilian one up to be debated
Will go have a look. Providing my internet doesn't decide to crash for the 100th time today before I get there. Grrr, its driving me mad. Some people get road rage, I get pc/laptop rage lol.

I did put a thread in the non rec breeds section for general comments, not refering to the standard specificly.
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AshMan
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10-08-2010, 11:21 AM
'Bad breeding' blamed for dumped bull terriers Staffordshire bull terriers make the perfect family pet, the SBTC said Irresponsible breeding has led to a rise in the number of abandoned Staffordshire bull terriers, a dog rehoming home charity has said.

The City Dogs Home in Stoke-on-Trent said the breed accounted for about half of the dogs left with it.

It said the dogs had often been trained to be aggressive.

The Staffordshire Bull Terrier Club (SBTC) said the breed's reputation had been damaged by people cross-breeding them with banned pit bull terriers.

'Bad stock'

Dogs home manager Vicky Philips said: "People are breeding dogs not knowing what they have got, they could be breeding brothers and sisters and God knows what. The outcome is a bad breeding with bad traits.

"They are breeding wrong ones with the wrong ones and it's turning out bad stock. This is what is ruining Staffies."

James Beaufoy, president of the SBTC Kennel Club registered society, said criminals were breeding Staffies with types of dog that had been banned under the Dangerous Dogs Act in order to circumvent the law.

He said: "The Staffie's temperament is bold, fearless and reliable.

"They are a perfect family pet. You could not train a real Staffie to attack a human being because they trust them so much. A pit bull terrier cross is a very different matter though.

"The dogs that gangs use to attack people look nothing like a Staffie, they just call them that to get around the law.
"
She had me until the bolded bit.
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