But as I believe Nicci stated previously that her dog didn't look anything like a pitbull, so wouldn't have been classed as illegal type, therefore it wasn't required that she register him, as technicly, he wasn't actually illegal, even though he contained pitbull.

Doesn't make it right you weren't informed as to your dogs lines and what they contained. I do agree, like with the breeders of wolf lookalikes many of whoom don't know exactly what they're breeding, never mind the owners of the pups knowing what they're buying.

Though I don't see how the pitbull being put into the lines when pitbulls were legal is not right. At the time, no one knew the pitbull would eventually be banned, so you having a technicly illegal dog, though only if it looks like one, isn't the falt of that dogs owner/breeder, for using his/her dog back then. If they continue to do so, then that is another matter entirely.

I'm not totally against a repeal if it was proved to be workable - as there are breeds I like that are mentioned on the DDA that one day I would love to own.

Sadly I don't think it's ever going to happen though which is why I feel it's much better to work with what we legally have, rather than concentrating on something we shouldn't have as much as it pains me to say that

I'm not against the dogs at all, we have terrible things taking place with them whilst they are illegal, so what would become of them if made legal - that is what worries me - just gives the undesirables the green light to do whatever they wish, the dogs are then at their disposal - whatever laws were introduced there would always be folks that got round it, that much has been proved

It took 8 years for someone to admit the truth, by that time my dog was old and frail, passed summertime last year, still miss my dog like nothing on this earth
I'd been asking questions for years, which is why I had a falling out with that particular circle as you can imagine as anyone would be, rightly so, furious. As to the lengths gone to, to cover things up.


I agree, no-one has a crystal ball as to what is going to happen in the future - but regardless of that people still need to be aware of their dogs history and lines, no matter what as based on that information we can then make decisions regarding whether to walk away or not.

If one of those breeds you'd like one day, is a dogo, then you could always just move to the isle of man, where they're legal. Not sure if the fila or tosa are legal there or not, I know the pitbull is either banned outright, or licenced through some kind of wild animal legislation, I'm not sure.

On a more serious note, there is definately one breeder there who wouldn't appear to give a stuff about our law here, unless they don't know about it of course?. As they were advertising a litter of dogo puppies quite a while ago, and said they could deliver to anywhere in the uk.

As much as I can understand where you're coming from, sadly, the dogs are already at there disposel. The idiots you and I am worried about have already driven through the red light, so the fact it changes colour means nothing to them, because they just go anyway.

There will always be those who will break any law you give them. That doesn't mean we shouldn't have laws, nor should that be a justification for ineffective or unjust ones.

The problem with section 1, is that it does not address these idiots, it punishes their dogs. They get a slap on the wrist, their dog gets destroyed, and they go and get another. All the while, the public are being lead up the garden path, thinking that only those 4 breeds, or what they think look like them, are dangerous, and those who don't want to, or can't aford to pay for a pure pitbull to be provided illegaly grab the closest legal representatives of what they want, and it starts all over again.

Thats to say nothing of the countless dogs destroyed because they have the look, and the owners who didn't know, and many more who still aren't aware that that cute boxer x lab they got from the guy down the road 2 years ago, is infact now an illegal type, and dangerous by defalt.

I for one, am not suggesting that section 1 be scrapped, and nothing be brought in to replace it, I just think that no progress has and ever will be made, whilst the law continues to focus on the breed alone. The law needs to focus on all breeds, not just 4, it needs to focus on how they are bred, why they are bred, who is owning them, and why, the best way to make sure that those who allow or encourage esp the latter, their dogs to become dangerous are delt with, at the first sign of a problem developing, instead of waiting for someone to die before they act. The cause needs to be understood, before you can ever hope to deal with the effect, effectively. The breeding of dogs needs to be more strictly regulated, including that by law, breeders, not owners, should have each and everyone of their puppies identified in some way, I'd go for tatooing, though others prefer microchipping, or even dna profiling. I think that contact details for both the breeder and the owner of the dog need to be available.

A start would be the kc, refusing to register any dog, that includes on the activity register, unless they are identified by more than just a tag on the collar, or a kennel name. I could go on, but I think you get the point, and this really isn't the thread for this.

You got any pics of him?.

8 years! jeeze, now why does this all sound so sadly familiar.

Think we're in agreement totally here, I know, try not to faint lol.

I doubt O/H would put up with me moving again

I like the look of the Fila's but not sure whether I would go there if they we're legal after getting to know a breeder/exhibitor of them based in Belgium via another site

I know Dogo's are already here some numpty is crossing them with Neapolitan Mastiffs with no care in the world....

Give me a Neapolitan anyday

I got loads of photo's just loading them onto my laptop off one of my disks, I'll throw some up in a moment, you'll see from some of them I thought my own dog was far from dangerous just to prove I have nothing against any banned breed at all, I'm not a hater I'm a lover of all dogs of any kind - it's just that I don't and didn't appreciate having the wool pulled over my eyes.

Oooo, I like neapolitans.

The prat doing the mixing, wants an ecollar on the highest possible setting, strapped to a sencitive part of their anatomy.

What'd the breeder say about the fila to put you off?.

Tbh, the fila out of the 4, is the one I'd personally consider owning least, they just don't appeal to me at all.

I'm still not sure on the dogo, it is one of those maybe, maybe not breeds.

The tosa is one I like the look of, but know next to nothing about, other than it originated from japan, had been used for fighting, and was bred or encouraged to be quiet as to not attract attention to a fight going on.

An apbt I'd own in a heartbeat. I've always liked the breed, even as a kid, don't know why exactly just one of those things I suppose. Think as a kid I thought they were cute or something to that effect, even when people tried to tell me they'd rip my face off, and there within lies the problem for adults who encounter a kid who knows their own mind, they find it hard to convince them to believe what they want them to.

The moral of the storry, if you're a parent who wants a gullable easy to lead child, than letting them watch documentaries designed for adults from the age of 3, is certainly not advised lol.



I'd be furious to.

Btw, what other breeds were used in the creation of, your boys breed. Infact, what was your boy? I know you've stated previously on another thread he was an alternative bulldog, but can't recall you specifying which one he was.

There seems to be new alternative bulldog types popping up all the time. I do quite like the look of many of them, but if there like the ni/other wolf lookalikes, don't think I'll go there.

The breeder of the Fila's was attacked by one of her own dogs, yet it was a highly trained animal that has titles in Schutzhund
I've been told the same by other owners at how unpredictable they can be on the very site I got to know this person on, they can't all be wrong surely

As for my dog, he was one of the 'alternative bulldogges' you speak of, yet it took me years to uncover the truth on a dog that was from within his breeding...which is why I am no longer are involved within that very circle, how could I be? It's not the way I operate and never could, I much prefer the honest approach - but obviously no one is going to do that.

His breeding went back to Bulldog, Neapolitan Mastiff, Bullmastiff & PB it was only after his weight was questioned I looked further into his breeding & kept on questioning one dog I myself could find no information on - it took someone ''in the know'' to answer that question for me. In his prime, he weighed over 70 kilos - never ever being fat in anyway shape or form just a very solid, agile, muscular dog.
On the face of things he appeared to be very well bred as things go some very nice dogs behind him.
It just took a while for it to come out a PB had been used in the ''creation'' of him - no one should have to go through what I had to go through to find out the truth & they certainly shouldn't have to wait years for that to be told to them. Like I say some folks have suspected things for a long time, but never had it confirmed either way. I can't speak for all dogs from breedings like that, I just know what went into my own after keeping those questions up, all I can confirm is there are dogs from the same breeding as my boy out there. Funnily enough, the person whom informed me had a couple of dogs from the same lines, but was sent to ''coventry'' for fessing up!!!

One of the nicest natured dogs I've ever had the pleasure of owning, but he was far from easy in the early years, we got there in the end though!

Simply put, you cannot breed aggression into a dog. That goes for aggression toward humans, dogs, and other animals. Aggression is, by definition, a behavior, and behavior is influenced by both genetics and environment. To quote from one of our affiliate’s sites, wherein temperament and behavior is discussed (http://happypitbull.com/basics/temperament.html), John Paul Scott is a renowned scientific researcher who was interested in the interplay between genetics and behavior. He did experiments with mice to determine whether highly aggressive mice could be created through breeding. “The experiments with mice show us that aggression has to be learned. Defensive fighting can be stimulated by the pain of an attack, but aggression, in the strict sense of an unprovoked attack, can only be produced by training… Heredity can enter into the picture only in such ways as lowering or raising the threshold of stimulation, or modifying the physical equipment for fighting… In considering hereditary effects, we must always remember that the environmental situation is also important…” – John Paul Scott, Aggression.

It’s important to discard the notion that pit bulls today are dog-aggressive as a result of their sordid history. Most of the “pit bulls” out there today are far removed from their history as fighting dogs. It’s like saying Dachshunds are bred to burrow into tunnels after badgers, or Poodles are bred to retrieve game. Most dogs of these breeds don’t do that anymore. They are bred to a physical standard, not for performance. Or they are bred in someone’s backyard as a pet, with minimal, if any, regard for appearance, health, or temperament. While some individual dogs may exhibit a tendency to behave in a way that is stereotypical or traditionally associated with the breed or type, it would be a fallacy to paint the entire breed-type with that brush.

Furthermore, if aggression was something we could breed into a dog, dog fighters would not need to train, condition, and torture their dogs so extensively. Unfortunately, since pit bull owners are continually told that their pit bull is naturally dog-aggressive (by other well-meaning pit bull owners, rescuers, and other misinformed individuals), this can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Pit bull owners stop socializing their dog or taking it out in public for fear of an incident (a justifiable fear, since the “pit bull” is most likely to be blamed for any incident); they assume the worst about normal dog behaviors like grumbling, snapping, or even rough play between dogs; they fail to act when genuine aggressive behavior does arise, because they believe such behavior is in the dog’s nature and is not changeable; and they are told by trainers that the situation is hopeless. Compare this to an average Lab owner, who is not told from day one that his dog is going to be aggressive. The Lab owner will take his dog everywhere and socialize it, because he believes his dog is going to be a friendly, lovable dog. If and when aggressive behavior occurs, you can bet that owner is going to call up a trainer, because aggressive behavior in a Lab is not considered “normal.”

Respected national trainers like Marjorie Darby, Jean Donaldson, and Janis Bradley stress that dogs become what the owner expects them to become. For instance, despite the fact that “pit bulls” are not herding dogs, Diane Jessup obtained the highest possible herding titles on several of her pit bulls, apparently simply because she thought it would be fun. Yet many people would argue that herding is an “instinct” that is bred into herding breeds!

This is not to say that dogs (all dogs) are only dog-aggressive because their owner screwed up. Again, genetics does play a part; as John Paul Scott says (and Jean Donaldson says something very similar in her book, The Culture Clash), genetics raises and lowers thresholds of stimulation. Some dogs will be quicker to react than others in similar circumstances. It’s up to the owner to learn where those thresholds are, and to work within those thresholds.

However, it’s important to note that we are not capable of controlling those thresholds through breeding except in the very crudest manner—by breeding two dogs with similar temperaments and hoping that the offspring are given that temperament. It rarely works so easily. It is not the same as breeding for coat color (which is controlled by only one or two genes). The resulting puppies may have fairly uniform appearances, but their temperament is theirs and theirs alone, and it’s anyone’s guess how they’ll turn out. Neither dog-aggression nor human-aggression is exclusive to “pit bulls.” It is not a state of being. Any dog can exhibit such behavior if the environment allows for it.