I am sure I'm not the only one to say no, don't retire!! You have apologised most gracefully, and I am sure Wys will accept it in the spirit which it was intended. God knows, I have many, many times gone over the top on this site and said things which perhaps would have been better left unsaid, we are all passionate about our dogs, and our views on how they should be trained, raised, treated. It is what makes Dogsey the site it is that hopefully we CAN and SHOULD be able to step out of line occasionally, and be forgiven. I have not been part of this debate page by page, so am not fully up to scratch with your misdemeanour or otherwise, but everyone surely is allowed to be forgiven when they are obviously sorry?

Please don't go!

That proves nothing-----why won't you be a guinea pig?

rune

Goodonya!

Good point!

Ah, but have you ever put on the site deliberately misleading statements/deliberate lies to discredit Mech?

I cant rem who put th is link up because I opend it and just read it now

http://drsophiayin.com/blog/are-elec...-a-new-study-r

Im putting it up again because it is very interesting and I would like to hear Adams views on it

It is saying that dogs trained with e collars showed more fear and stress signals during training, on the training ground when not being trained AND in normal life than other dogs being trained with prong collars - and even kicks
I would be very interested in your response to that?

I find it vv sad - the dogs are actually more unhappy and stressed than dogs who have been kicked in the course of 'training'

- and all the training makes me feel sick there, I wish they also compared to dogs being trained without correction

Is this the one you are referring to? If so, I found the bit below a terrible statement to take in. If the dog cannot trust its owner ...

http://www.ust.is/media/ljosmyndir/dyralif/Trainingdogswithshockcollar.pdf

"The conclusions, therefore are, that being trained
is stressful, that receiving shocks is a painful experience to dogs, and that the S-dogs evidently have learned that the presence of their owner (or his commands) announces reception of shocks, even outside of the normal training context. This suggests that the welfare of these shocked dogs is at stake, at least in the presence of their owner."

Hi Michael,

I totally accept your apology, thank you very much

Let's forget it and move on

Wys
x

Since electric shock collars are `graded` to the size of the dog they are intended to hurt...
when people test them on themselves - do they use the level for themselves or for their dog?
I bet Adam as he calls himself is bigger than his poor litle terrier. So if he is, say 11 stone and his terrier is half a stone, what setting would be appropriate for Adam ? (assuming Adam has a sense nerve that is)

They're not supposed to be graded to the 'size' of the dog, but the 'drive' of the dog. However, as drive intensity changes depended on activity, it would need a genious to keep adjusting the level so that it remained at a constant level of sensation and it would also take quite a lot of telepathic ability to 'know' what the dog feels thoughout the process.