Truly...it would be okay to sell on pet pups that had had training, to people that didn't have time to do it? I'm thinking people wouldn't be happy with that really...

Another excellent post Dawn. Unfortunately many people in this country (including the Government) seem to have forgotten we need farmers to provide this country with food!

I am sorry Ailsa, but I don't have a problem with this, so long as the dog is being sold into a kind home where the dog will be well looked after.

Great - if you have the time! Most shepherds are employed, and I don't think their boss's would be too happy with a moonlighting shepherd training dogs instead of doing his work. Shepherding is 7 days a week - not a 9-5 job with weekends off.

I think that would be perfectly acceptable (and actually a very good idea!) - so long as you made sure the homes for the older pups were just as suitable as the ones for the pups at 8 weeks - ie they were good and kind homes.

Exactly! Any older dogs that we do part with, go to homes where they can continue to do less strenuous and arduous work. We keep in contact with all the new owners and also say that if, for whatever reason, they can no longer keep the dog, then it comes back to us.

I sort of understand where you are coming from too - I've always said its against my principles to make money from dogs too - but then I'm arguing against you in this case!

But, take this scenario. Shepherd has a pair of really good working dogs from good working lines. he needs maybe 2 more young ones, so breeds his dogs and gets a litter of maybe 6 or 7. So what should be do with the rest?

Option1 - keep them all - not practical.
Option 2 - tries to find working homes for them as pups - maybe he does do this, but can't find enough homes
Option 3 - he offers them as pets. Is this really a good option for such a strong working line? Maybe the dogs would do well in a very few good homes, but generally they won't make the average ideal pet dog.
option 4 - he culls the ones he doesn't need. That option doesn't bear thinking about.
option 5 - he trains them all knowing there is good demand for trained dogs and covers some of his cost in doing so.

To me, options 2 & 5 are the best.

Of course, you could say, why does he breed them at all when he could go and buy from someone else. And to a certain extent, you would be right. But from the shepherd's point of view, he knows that he has the best chance of getting what he needs from his own dogs. It would only be if he thought there was no chance of getting these dogs other working homes (or non-working homes for any that really showed no inclination to work) that I think I would feel uncomfortable.

Thanks Ailsa - I look forward to our continuing discussion

Thanks Catrin - it is never as simple as it might first seem. I am glad that my frank, honest and open explanation is making the picture a little clearer. I never expected everyone to think it is okay to sell on older dogs (for whatever reason) ... after all, I am not completely comfortable with it myself but can see no other way at the moment. When I come into money and can afford to buy our own farm with lots of land, then I may be able to change things

Great to have a thread to get you thinking though eh?

I personally really wouldn't have a problem with a breeder selling pet pups which were already house-trained, socialised, with basic obedience etc (as well as well bred and health tested etc) at a higher price ... I really wouldn't. In fact, I think you may have a great idea there Ailsa!

I am not taking anything you say personally We always have some good discussions around this type of subject, but never fall out! That is why I feel I can have such a discussion on here, without being personally attacked.