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Location: Cheshire
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,387
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27-12-2007, 02:40 PM
Originally Posted by Ripsnorterthe2nd 
How very sad.
RIP puppies x
I have to say I wouldn't dream of risking my pup by not vaccinating and certainly wouldn't allow it anywhere near a training school that allowed unvaccinated pups to attend. I mean why risk it?
Isla wasn't allowed on the ground until 1 week after her 2nd vacc, but we still managed to socialise her well. Carrying can be an issue with any breed medium sized and up, but even so why not follow the vacc rules and be creative?
Have people visit your house with other vaccinated dogs, take the pup out in the car, take it to peoples houses even if they don't have dogs.
I really can't see how risking the pups health could be more important than socialisation, when there are so many ways round the latter?
I'll never forget a poor dog I witnessed die of Parvo when I spent 2 weeks at a vets for work experience. The suffering that dog went through was horrific. It's true that vaccines aren't fool proof, but why turn down something that will, more than likely, decrease you dogs chances of catching and dying from such horrific diseases?
The benefits of vaccinating far outweigh the risks IMO.
thats such a sad story though - not worth risking it -
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Location: Scotland
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,578
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28-12-2007, 10:00 AM
Originally Posted by muttzrule
Six were german shorthaired pointer mixes, all littermates, none of them survived, they were 9 weeks old
One was a german shepherd mix, she was 12-14 weeks old, she passed away this morning.
The remaining is a min pin mix, aged 4 months. She is doing well.
The German Shepherd is certainly not YOUNG pup and in fact prob had her first vacc which in all probability it was the live vaccine that took over.
Rolling my eyes at the fact that the only surviver from this bunch was the cross breed. You couldn't have made that more perfect if you tried.
I am a little disgusted that someone was allowed to say in reference to my postings that they are all 'crap'. If I had said that I would be thrown into next week.
That is what makes me think some people here are ignorant and not open minded. There is obviously something lacking.
I have been PM'd by people on and off line that have said there is no point in arguing you are all missing the point. Notice that the other people that dont't vaccinate are avoiding being here....like they have argued and been dismissed before.
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Location: Cheshire
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,387
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28-12-2007, 10:21 AM
Originally Posted by jess
Scientifically you need to discard the ones from the same litter. There is obviously something else going on there (eg problem genes)
The German Shepherd is certainly not YOUNG pup and in fact prob had her first vacc which in all probability it was the live vaccine that took over.
Rolling my eyes at the fact that the only surviver from this bunch was the cross breed. You couldn't have made that more perfect if you tried.
I am a little disgusted that someone was allowed to say in reference to my postings that they are all 'crap'. If I had said that I would be thrown into next week.
That is what makes me think some people here are ignorant and not open minded. There is obviously something lacking.
I have been PM'd by people on and off line that have said there is no point in arguing you are all missing the point. Notice that the other people that dont't vaccinate are avoiding being here....like they have argued and been dismissed before.
i think you are the ignorant one here
i CAN understand why people who have had dogs react to the vaccine, dont want their 2nd dog to have it done - i get that - but im sure there are alternatives than not to vaccinate
im still shocked that you are a dog trainer, you are not open minded to listen to people on here who have been aruond alot longer than you, with lots more experience etc - they are telling you this for the sake of your dogs health, not to pi55 you off
OH, and the thing lacking here is your ability to listen...
you want to be insulted like this again??? dont insult us...
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Location: dogsville
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,141
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28-12-2007, 06:54 PM
Originally Posted by jess
Scientifically you need to discard the ones from the same litter. There is obviously something else going on there (eg problem genes)
Why? They have died of parvo andf the whole litter contracted it...simple really.
The German Shepherd is certainly not YOUNG pup and in fact prob had her first vacc which in all probability it was the live vaccine that took over.
That is an awful lot of probablies...it is also a lot of assumptions....
Rolling my eyes at the fact that the only surviver from this bunch was the cross breed. You couldn't have made that more perfect if you tried.
Why adopt that sort of patronising tone?No need for it.
I am a little disgusted that someone was allowed to say in reference to my postings that they are all 'crap'. If I had said that I would be thrown into next week.
Missed that post...if you are offneded, report the post using the icon in the bottom right hand corner of the post. If it is against posting guidellines the mods will deal with it, they can't do that if you don't complain.
That is what makes me think some people here are ignorant and not open minded. Sorry? Some people here are ignorant and not open minded??? Is that because they don't agree with you Jess. You have posted nothing to tell us why you do not vaccinate, no scientific evidence, no good reason....lots of people have posted about the importance of puppy vaccinations. Who sin't being open minded....you need to make it clear why you made the decisions you have (it is your thread after all) and elaborate on why you feel it is safe to allow unvaccinated pups at your classes. I do hope you have good insurance in place by the way.There is obviously something lacking.
I have been PM'd by people on and off line that have said there is no point in arguing you are all missing the point. You always do that Jess..you always say 'people have PMd me'...thats great, but they don't post do they? I also have PMs about this and rep points...but don't feel the need to mention as I assume that you do too.
Notice that the other people that dont't vaccinate are avoiding being here....like they have argued and been dismissed before.
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Location: Cheshire
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,387
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29-12-2007, 12:02 AM
if i visited your dog club (not that i woudl with my dog cos they aint vaccinated
) and saw your age and the fact, you dont vaccinate, id walk straight out, id feel insulted taking advice from a 26 year old!!!! about the welfare and the rest of my dogs life tbh and the people who go your 'classes' i hope to god they join dogsey and see that you really dont care about the health of your dogs - i mean if you didyou would get them vaccinated - at least for the first few years of their lives...!!!!!!!!!!!!!imagine where i take my pup - down the farm IMAGINE THE RATS!!!!!! the crap they carry - if she wasnt fully vaccinated,,, imagine what she would have by now?!!!!! i take her in the woodsd, fields, through crapp etc.... think about the disease n stuff in them......... thank god for vaccinations - ok you may argue they are not 100% effective - at least im giving my dog a chance!!!!!!
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Location: Scotland
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,578
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29-12-2007, 09:42 AM
That is a bit below the belt don't you think?
''at least im giving my dog a chance!!!!!!''
This is the bit that I argue about. Withouts sounding patronising (because it seems my points are not coming across as scientific evidence) the immune system is not finite. That means when you pump live vaccine into the system you are lowering the immune system to 'fight off' that virus (or in the case of the puppy and yearly ones - several at once).
Not only does this leave the immune system weak in case of other 'bugs' or diseases were to come along at the same time (how ever long it takes to fight off the vaccine) it also is bad news if the immune system is ALREADY fighting something at the time of vaccination. Which is likely in young pups when they have just been introduced to the world (away from mum). Sorry but even the cleanest houses/cars have news bugs for a new bought pup.
So what I have learned so far in my (young as you say) life, scares me enough to tip the balance towards not vaccinating.
I am not going to argue about how much experience I do or do not have, that is for my clients (who seems happy) and peers in my field to decide.
I am open minded enough to change my mind if you have evidence that would tip my feelings towards the other side. However for now I DO care about the health of my dogs, very very much, and the desicion has not been taken lightly.
Two years ago I got my previous pup vaccinated, first pup shots. I didn't sleep for nights I was so worried about the things I knew. (Sometimes I feel ignorance would be the easier route - just to follow the norm, not to have all the worry!)
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Location: dogsville
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,141
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29-12-2007, 12:45 PM
Originally Posted by jess
''you really dont care about the health of your dogs''
That is a bit below the belt don't you think?
''at least im giving my dog a chance!!!!!!''
This is the bit that I argue about. Withouts sounding patronising (because it seems my points are not coming across as scientific evidence) the immune system is not finite. That means when you pump live vaccine into the system you are lowering the immune system to 'fight off' that virus (or in the case of the puppy and yearly ones - several at once).
Not only does this leave the immune system weak in case of other 'bugs' or diseases were to come along at the same time (how ever long it takes to fight off the vaccine) it also is bad news if the immune system is ALREADY fighting something at the time of vaccination. Which is likely in young pups when they have just been introduced to the world (away from mum). Sorry but even the cleanest houses/cars have news bugs for a new bought pup.
So what I have learned so far in my (young as you say) life, scares me enough to tip the balance towards not vaccinating.
I am not going to argue about how much experience I do or do not have, that is for my clients (who seems happy) and peers in my field to decide.
I am open minded enough to change my mind if you have evidence that would tip my feelings towards the other side. However for now I DO care about the health of my dogs, very very much, and the desicion has not been taken lightly.
Two years ago I got my previous pup vaccinated, first pup shots. I didn't sleep for nights I was so worried about the things I knew. (Sometimes I feel ignorance would be the easier route - just to follow the norm, not to have all the worry!)
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Location: Cheshire
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,387
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29-12-2007, 07:17 PM
if you read the whole sentance you will understand from an outsiders point of view and from the things jess has posted why were are like wtf...!
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