Perhaps she is their boss, but I don't believe she is the boss because her dogs look at her as head of the pack. She's the boss because she's their owner, their carer, not because she's the 'alpha in the pack'. I just don't think dogs see it like that.

That's exactly how I see myself as their carer and friend not their boss, a sort of mutual respect of each others needs.
Becky

Well then one of you pack will take the leader position instead of you. Pack leaders care for their pack. Dogs don't work in a 'we'll all look out for each other,' 'we'll all just be friends and just hang out,' kind of way. They instinctively seek a heirarchy.If packs don't have a good heirarchy and structure it doesn't function as well. That creates squabbles and stress, because dogs are programmed to own a place in the pack. If they don't know where they belong, or who they are, then they will try and find out through squabbling and misbehaviour, and it is stressful for them. If a dog who isn't a natural leader takes the leader role because noone else is, then it will also be stressed from that responsibility.

But that simply isn't true with my lot, they don't act as a pack at all. No-one has assumed lead role here at all. You're more than welcome to come and see 'living together in harmony' in action with my lot at any time.
Becky

But humans are a different species? We're not dogs, we're not in their pack.

I believe multiple dog households will have a pack between the dogs, but the humans aren't involved.

I agree!

I think that a human can reinforce pack values between the dogs, but can't be involved in that way.

I suppose I reinforce that Max is "top dog" as he gets everything first - food, cuddles, treats etc. but I do it so that he wouldn't feel pushed out in anyway when we got Murphy.

I also don't think that every breed of dog needs a "pack". It seems that husky-type breeds - NI's, Sibes etc seem to need firmer handling and more "pack" reinforcement than Poodles (for example)

I just find it hard to believe that my Border Collie can have no instinct with sheep, something that was in the blood just a couple of generations before, and yet apparently he still has the instincts inherited from wolves many centuries ago? Doesn't make sense to me.

The jury is out for me on all this alpha dominance, wolf-related stuff!! But I voted yes, but perhaps the question for me really should be do you 'do' leadership?

I make sure Marius knows who is boss, although I don't really like the tag of 'dominance'. To me the leadership is training him, teaching manners and to have mutual respect.

Rottweilers are widely regarded as a naturally dominant dog. Strong willed, intelligent and they make huge efforts to get their own way. They need a firm, but kind trainer and a very consistent one. They definately need mental stimulus and love their training sessions. Other breeds are like this too and they do need a dominant owner who the dog respects and understands who is boss.

The important difference between these types of dogs and the less dominant ones is that if you did not have these rules they would soon vote themselves top-dog and that's when trouble starts. I am sure there are lots of dogs out there who could be spoiled rotten, allowed on sofas, fed titbits, sleep in beds etc and never become problematic - do this with a dominant dog and boy will you see a difference!

Of course not every single Rottie is dominant, but a lot have that natural tendancy to try to be leader if their owner fails to do so. I do think they are a breed if you give them an inch they will take a mile, so you have to watch for that!

I don't allow him (or any other dog I've owned) upstairs or on the sofa - as if we did he'd be wanting on it constantly and it is OUR space not his! I do make him wait before me in doorways as to allow him to rush through is bad manners and potentially dangerous (especially if carrying a hot cuppa for example!!) I can lift his dinner-bowl/bone/chew off him without a murmur. When he decides to try it on (which to be fair is not often) - we go back to basics and train until he learns the acceptable behaviour.

It is a very interesting thread this, enjoyed reading all the replies.

He has advocated and used them on every dog on every episode I managed to stomach :smt102

Then why does he put chokers on all the dogs on his programs and use them to force dogs to face situations they can`t cope with...

A jerk is force.

Alpha schmalpha rolling is one of the single most dangerous things to do to a dog, people copy it, they get bitten, the dog gets destroyed.
Its stupid, irresponsible, and is about brute force, it is nothing to do with a dogs natural behaviour in the way he does it, humans have no place doing it to a dog.

And they are the worst dogs to do that insane treatment to, its absolutely crazy

He wants robots, he wants dogs that dare not show when they are afraid because when they are he forces them into situations they can`t handle.
Dogs learn to hide their fears because of such repercussions, it does not mean they are `cured`, far from it.


Nope, he just teaches them to keep quiet and not show when they are worried about something. That creates a volcano which will explode in someones face long after he has moved on to someone elses dog.


Of course he does`nt care, he gets paid big bucks by the gullible :smt102

One can only hope !

Or they would approach someone who does`nt do `quick fix` plasters like he does.

Well, yes, because its dangerous and leads to people trying it themselves, getting bitten, and dogs destroyed s a result !

Have we been watching the same programs ? i have`nt seen him not use a choke on a dog when I used to watch his programs :smt017

Ah yes, the common song of the e-collar user - all that means is that he was stumped :smt102

Its the way programs are cut together that makes it look like `magic`. Real training in the real world is about patience, time, and real understanding by desensitisation done carefully, not by dragging a dog on a choker next to what the dog is scared of [ and yes he does do exactly that ].

Was I rude to you ? About the moron Milan yes, but I don`t recall being insulting to you so I would appreciate an apology and no further personal rudeness thanks.


I`d put my `ways` and understanding over his any day of the week. I`ll stick with what I do and not his guff given that he often gets bitten but I don`t. I can guarantee you if he`d tried his foolishness on my previously severely human aggressive dog the way he was when I first took him in, [ not that Milan would ever have had the chance ! ], well, Milan would`nt have got to roll him never mind put one of his insidious chokers on him - he would not have been just bitten but shredded, because if he`d tried his abusive alpha roll and choker crap on my dog, my dog would have been given the right to retaliate by me thats for sure, but even then my dog retaliating would be nothing compared to what I`d have done to teach Milan not to abuse my dog with his out dated debunked rot.

I have great respect for those who know how and when to use the alpha roll safely and effectively. It's not a technique I would advise anyone to use unless they were totally confident and suitably experienced.

We had another Dogsey member, who unfortunately no longer posts, who wrote about using this tehnique in the USA in the course her job, in one instance on a very stressed Pitbull.

Well done Shona, you obviously know your dogs.