Hmm not entirely sure I buy into this idea of the dog is chasing because its so stressed.

Its a dog, chasing/predatory behaviour is kinda the point!

We certainly didn't team up with them because they werew peaceful scavangers, we teamed up with them because they radically improved are ablity to hunt.

Also any dog will chase. I've met the soppyest easy going lab that would kill sheep if it could. If you get into the whole certain people shouldn't have certain dogs you open a whole can of worms.
Should I not have collies because I can't provide for their herding needs ect.

Imo if you can provide for a dogs exercise and social requirments its fine to have it. If that means you e collar train it so what!

Btw I strongly disagree with dogs that never get free running.
Thats the fate of most dogs who don't respond to recall training. With all the associated behavioural problems/death if these get bad enough.

Adam

Not getting at you just using a quote.

But most owners are not trainers. We can see light at the end of the tunnell of thousands of behavioural trials, they can't and quit. And the dog suffers.
Adam

Laughing here too - however did the idea that it involves getting dogs to upchuck get onto the thread? I have read DR's work and have the book - nowhere and nohow does making a dog sick or use of emetics come into it. An attempt to discredit him?

OK, I am butting in here having not read right the way through the thread from the beginning, but for what it's worth, I thought I would relate where we are at with Ben.

Ben is a rescue, castrated, aged 5 or so, son of our last dog Hal. For the first 3 or so years of his life, once he was fully grown I suppose, Ben was kept on a running line in the back garden because his owners left him Home Alone all day and he ate their house. From what I can gather, he was never, if ever, exercised, and certainly not off lead. 2 or 3 homes later, he ends up with us, back in august. Our friend had Ben for nearly 2 years, but following a bad accident could no longer keep him, so we stepped in to the breach and took on a dog who had no idea of recall, no idea of obedience apart from Sit and lie down, which was good. He was aggressive, very aggressive, towards other male dogs, entire or castrated. He was aggressive towards humans if you tried to stop him doing what he wanted to do, and he hated to be touched or groomed. But the worst thing of all was his recall.

After the first couple of days, we let him off the lead wherever it was safe to do, away from roads or livestock. Luckily we live in the middle of nowhere, so not difficult. To start with, he was aggressive towards other dogs, but would not bite, just a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing. To cut a long story short, within weeks the dog aggression had stopped, and the human aggression was heavily curtailed. He would even allow me to brush his tail, something he truly hates. He never actually bit, just air snapped, and threatened in every way he could to try and get his own way. Here we are now 5 or so months on, and yesterday in the woods for the first time his recall was pretty excellent. True, he won't come right to your side and faithfully sit, he runs past, skids to a halt, and then bows at you whilst you catch him with a silly great grin on his face, just like his git of a father used to do, but this is good enough for me.

I so firmly believe dogs need to run free, and if you have the confidence where it is safe to let them off the lead, you can train even sled dogs not to run away. As my husband says, it is all about keeping the faith and trusting your dog. ddogs like mine are never going to have a perfect recall, although Tai is pretty good, but what Ben does is good enough for me, and I am very, very proud of him!

That's a really interesting post. Sorry hijacking a little but with aggression it's difficult to know how to do the right thing. Cain is difficult with other dogs (not out and out aggressive but socially poor and with pounce on them) and occassionally wary of strangers and lunge a bark at them. In an effort to keep him under control we try have him on a lead most of the time while trying to socialise him.

Our dog trainer says he shouldn't be allowed to practise his "bad" pouncing behaviour and we stop the doggy interaction if he starts splatting. But I sometimes wander if just whacking a muzzle on him and letting him off lead just to see what he does migth be the right thing. He doesn't want to attack other dogs, he bucks and whine and gets excited and frsutrated, he wants to play but often gets it all wrong. I sometimes think just letting him off lead to "work it out" might help. When given a bit of freedom he can amaze us and behave so well, but I just don't trust him!

But then it seems pretty irresponsible just to let him off lead in a park to cause havoc....even if he is muzzled. Just don't know what to do for the best

Do you have a large area that Cain can go for a free run and dogs he is allowed off with?

Sounds like he's just a typical teen and needs to get a lot out of his system so he can learn to interact a bit better and mature a bit. (I'm in no way saying stop his training btw)

and teach a bit of impulse control (he sounds like he gets frustated if he cant go over the second he gets excited?)

I have been taking him over once a month to Krlyr to play with her dog Kiki (unfortunately I don't drive so it's a bit of a mission to get there regularly) and they have been off lead together in a field (him on a long line) and it went well.

I've been told to select the "right" sort of dog - cool and calm and mostly ignore him. Unfortunately some people in the area see him coming and avoid us because he's loud, brash and noisy. He has a few doggy friends but most are young and hyper too so do nothing to calm his behaviour and they tolerate his "bad" bheaviour rather than correcting him (which Kiki does, she won't take his nonsence!).

I walk at random times as I work and I struggle to meet up with regular groups of people and those we do know, I haven't managed to get them in a secure area with only dogs that I trust. London dog parks are very busy and I don't want to just let him go.

I have tried to engineer these interactions but it's not provin very fruitful, especially not regularly

There is a dog socialisation group I've tried to sign him up with but they are't taking on new dogs right now.

Organise a Dogsey London walk. Daisy would be pleased to oblige. She is bomb-proof but insists on Manners.

Our dog trainer says he shouldn't be allowed to practise his "bad" pouncing behaviour and we stop the doggy interaction if he starts splatting.

Your trainer is absolutely correct.


But I sometimes wander if just whacking a muzzle on him and letting him off lead just to see what he does migth be the right thing.

No, because the only thing a muzzle does is stop a dog biting (unless it fails of course) it does not stop the dog rehearsing poor greetings and it does nothing for interpersonal relationships (dogs or owners).

The best way to get poorly socialised dogs to learn about other dogs is to work them in a sufficiently large area with other dogs (on lead) so that they learn that they can have fun with other dogs around but the other dogs are not the SOURCE of fun.

(This does not apply with dogs that want to destroy other dogs though).

I know, you're right and it is what we've been doing for the last year. I think it's just frustration getting to me as I feel he is at a stage now where he could go off lead in a secure area with the right dog..........but I am struggling to actually get an empty park and the right dogs in the same place at the same time!