When you lift endorsements it is usually for the owner to breed them selves not the original breeder.

Yes, I understand that, but was just illustrating the only possible scenario I would allow a bitch of mine to be bred from, however unlikely it would be.

No you don't need a endorsment lift to do that, but if the pups were really proving exceling in what they do I would assume that their owners could be considering asking for a lift on the endorsements, espcially if there is more then one owner competiting and proving their dogs, if there is only a few doing it they may not want the hassle, I understand this though, but I think at some point someone would want to breed, I mean everyone who breeds got into it at some point.

and some people want to show and not breed ( like me ) so just because I dont breed a dog I have competed with does not mean she/he hasnt proved its self. and shouldnt reflect the breeder. Contracts are sent with endorsments most of the time and that will state when the endorsments will be lifted, if at all. for example when competition at a high level in what ever and passed all health tests. If a breeder sells a dog and states the endorsments will never be lifted then the owner can try and make the breeder change their mind if the pup turns out to be shown and do well, but the breeder doesnt owe it to anyone to do so, after all in that case the dog would have been sold as a pet.

You may decide you want to breed yet the thing is enforcements don't mean a good breeder, if I were looking at a breeder I would be looking at past pups too, so would hopefully find tried and tested from that breeder, I would also question the breeder in so many things as to part cash means I agree with them and their ethics and enforcements would come up along with other things I'd want to know the ins and outs of everything before saying yes or no, but altough enforcements are good and all that they don't guarentee a good dog from a good breeder, as enforcements may mean a good strict breeder, or if all previous pups have had none lifted they may mean that the pups from that breeder are not the best at what they are bred for or anything in between.

You are right I many decided to yet! No endorsments dont mean a decent breeders, but then there is not anyone thing that makes a breeder decent its a group of things that do.
Your still not getting it, just because endorsments have not been lifted does not mean the dogs was not good enough for what it was bred for just means that dog hasnt been bred because the breeders hasnt lifted endorsments for what ever reason.. was sold as a pet, owner doesnt want to breed, the dogs is a carrier of a health problems the owner doesnt want to risk it yada yada.. It may have nothing what so ever to do with not proving its self in the ring, working feilds or agility or anything else the dog was bred to do.

Why would you send the bitch back to the breeder to have the litter, (hypothetically ) thats not what endorsements are about.

The scenario you are giving would come under "breeding terms" , different from endorsements, if your breeder wanted the bitch back to breed from, you would have agreed this before you bought her .



I am still getting the impression,that you associate endorsements being placed on pups, with the thinking that said pups are not good examples of the breed.


Endorsements have nothing to do with the quality of the dogs you are breeding,

You seem to think, that a breeder puts endorsements on her pups, because she /he may feel that they are not going to grow into quality dogs.. and if she lifts the endorsments on one or two of her pups later on, that she considers the rest of that litter inferior , and not breeding material.

The if said breeder goes on to breed from either the dam or the sire again, she is breeding poor stock


Breeders place endorsments on pups for peace of mind, it gives then a security blanket of knowing their pups are not being exploited by unscrupulous people.







If I was buying a puppy to show , and I had a idea in the future I would maybe like to breed from my dog if it did well, I would not buy a pup with endorsments , !!

But if I did buy a pup with endorsements, and all went well and I decided to breed, if the dog was excelling in its chosen field, and had past all its health tests, then I would ask my breeder if they woudl lift the endorsements.

I will make the point that although I see why some breeders do endorse, and admire them for it, , I dont think a breeder is any less a good one if they dont endorse..some do , some dont, there is so much more to being a good breeder, its just a box that has been ticked, but all the other boxes need to be ticked too!

Do you think that watching that program, the ethical, responsible breeders are the ones to blame? If not, why would the KC reg dogs come into the equation as far as "these" types are concerned, and why should they be forced to do more, when in fact they already do all they can?

Dont know how else to explain this to you Chaz,, you have it fixed firmly in your mind, that endorements and not lifting them means the dogs are not good qauilty examples of the breed.

I would buy a show potential dog with endorsments as long as the contract stated the endorsments would be lifted at a responsible age and after the correct health tests were done. Although I would accept that If for any reason a health results was to come back dodgy then I would respect the breeders wishes to leave the said dog endorsed.