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Location: Essex, UK
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10-07-2010, 03:58 PM
Originally Posted by Nicci_L 
I am in no way condoning or supporting what he has done, but he and others have been massively let down by a system who KNEW what he was planning to do.
Yes I`m sure, in a perfect world, this and many other tragedies could have been averted. But the world isn`t perfect because people aren`t.
I expect many violent prisoners threaten revenge on those they imagine have slighted them. What would you expect to happen? That the prisoners are kept in prison till they appear reconciled? For the target families to be put in hiding?
Please take a step back and be realistic. The man was in prison for violence. He had obviously planned these actions as he had guns and ammunition ready for him, and he knew where his former partner lived, and what her new partner looked like. He was an abusive man with convictions for violence who was estranged from all his family, with a network of `hard` friends who were prepared to break the law to help him kill. He was not mentally ill or a victim.
Please spare a little of your sympathy for the woman and the police officer in hospital and the officer in the morgue and their families.
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Location: UK
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10-07-2010, 04:02 PM
Originally Posted by ClaireandDaisy
You are condoning it, though, IMO. By saying his actions weren`t his own choice. Blaming the victim, blaming the system, blaming the parents...
Yes I`m sure, in a perfect world, this and many other tragedies could have been averted. But the world isn`t perfect because people aren`t.
I expect many violent prisoners threaten revenge on those they imagine have slighted them. What would you expect to happen? That the prisoners are kept in prison till they appear reconciled? For the target families to be put in hiding?
Please take a step back and be realistic. The man was in prison for violence. He had obviously planned these actions as he had guns and ammunition ready for him, and he knew where his former partner lived, and what her new partner looked like. He was an abusive man with convictions for violence who was estranged from all his family, with a network of `hard` friends who were prepared to break the law to help him kill. He was not mentally ill or a victim.
Please spare a little of your sympathy for the woman and the police officer in hospital and the officer in the morgue and their families.
The victim was not a police officer, he was the new boyfriend of Mr Moats ex who had only known her for a week, she lied to Moat three weeks before his release stating to him over the phone she was seeing a ''Police Officer'' she's admitted in police statements she lied - IS that right?
I'm not making excuses for him because I cannot, but there is probably SO much more to this we don't know and never will.
The system has failed here, no one else, why on earth wasn't he assessed before his release, why wasn't he tagged, given probation - there are so many things wrong here.
It is believed he served 9 weeks of an 18 week sentence, it's not clear what for other than assaulting a child, would this be for common assault? (Speculating here, it's not fact)
I am sure had it been a much more serious offence, he would have served a whole LOT longer. It is believed to be the first prison sentence he served, so to say he's probably been violent all his life is wrong as I am sure he would have been picked up by authorities much sooner, so to say he was an abusive man with convictions for violence is wrong, he was a man with one conviction for assault (don't know circumstances) for which he served 9 weeks of an 18 week sentence in prison. I'm just trying my best to throw some facts into light, so please don't misquote me and say that I defend him as that is simply not true.
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Location: UK
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10-07-2010, 05:02 PM
Originally Posted by Moobli
I don't agree with the emboldened statement at all. I think it actually takes a fair bit of bravery to stick a gun to your head and pull the trigger
Not a nice way to die if you don't die instantly 
Nobody knows as yet what sort of state he was in, or indeed we will never know his reasons for taking his own life or his state of mind.I will just reiterate though that I have no sympathy for the man himself - for his family, yes, but not for himself.
Some people are not scared of pain, or death doesnt make them brave. Some people are confused, upset and angry they will do anything including taking their life. doesnt make them brave.
Brave is some one that will accept what they have done is wrong and let justice be brought to them.
They made the mistakes and should live with that, not take a gun to their heads because they cant cope, things are to much, they want to be in control ect!
He took his life, and now doesnt have to live with what he done - that is a coward!. everyone that was invoved will never forget all this though.
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Location: Essex, UK
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10-07-2010, 05:26 PM
The victim was not a police officer, he was the new boyfriend of Mr Moats ex who had only known her for a week,
I was referring to the policeman he shot
PC David Rathband, 42, was sitting in the driver's seat when Moat approached him from the passenger side and blasted him twice in the face and chest with a shotgun.
Despite his horrendous injuries the officer, who is married with two children, managed to radio his colleagues and raise the alarm.
she lied to Moat three weeks before his release stating to him over the phone she was seeing a ''Police Officer'' she's admitted in police statements she lied - IS that right?
Victims of domestic violence protect themselves and their family any way they can. If using a fictitious Police boyfriend might deter violence, I`d call it self-preservation, not lies.
Agnes Hornsby, Miss Stobbart’s grandmother, told how her granddaughter would come and stay with her in Gateshead when Moat’s violence became too much.
“He's got a violent temper," she said. Once he loses his temper he lashes out, of course she was always the nearest one and then she used to come here.
“He split her head open one night. From what she told me he threw her against a wall and jumped on her stomach.
“He always said if he couldn't have her then nobody else could."
It is believed he served 9 weeks of an 18 week sentence, it's not clear what for other than assaulting a child, would this be for common assault?
beating his 9-year old daughter.
His recent prison sentence was because he had assaulted a younger family member, for which he was sentenced to 18 weeks in prison.
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Location: UK
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10-07-2010, 06:11 PM
Originally Posted by ClaireandDaisy
I was referring to the policeman he shot
PC David Rathband, 42, was sitting in the driver's seat when Moat approached him from the passenger side and blasted him twice in the face and chest with a shotgun.
Despite his horrendous injuries the officer, who is married with two children, managed to radio his colleagues and raise the alarm.
Originally Posted by ClaireandDaisy
Please spare a little of your sympathy for the woman and the police officer in hospital and the officer in the morgue and their families.
I'd hazard a guess she was left with little choice but to move out by Social Services while they were carrying out their assements on her ability to protect their child and the danger he possibly posed to her before his release.
“He's got a violent temper," she said. Once he loses his temper he lashes out, of course she was always the nearest one and then she used to come here.[/I]
[I]“He split her head open one night. From what she told me he threw her against a wall and jumped on her stomach.
“He always said if he couldn't have her then nobody else could."
I'm sure had he beat her to a pulp he wouldn't have just served 9 weeks of an 18 week sentence.
This was the same man, who found that exact same daughter lying on the ground returning from the gym after she fell 35ft from a window, who described it being ''the worst moment of his life'' ''Who felt sick, as he thought she was dead'' - who then got into an arguement with the people responsible for housing them who wouldn't supply them with window locks to stop it happening again.
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Location: God's Own County
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10-07-2010, 07:05 PM
Raoul Moat is told by Samantha Stobbart, his on-off girlfriend of six years, that she is seeing a police officer and does not want to continue their relationship.
Moat is released from prison after serving a short sentence for assault.
Staff at Durham prison call Northumbria police to warn them that Miss Stobbart could be at risk of serious assault from Moat
At 2.40am. Miss Stobbart is shot twice in the stomach through the living room window of her parents' home in Scafell, Birtley. Chris Brown, her boyfriend of just a week, leaves the house holding an iron bar and is shot dead 50 yards from the front door.
11.30am. Detective Superintendent Steve Howes of Northumbria Police launches a manhunt, telling the media: "I would like to stress that this is not a random attack and that the people involved are all known to each other."
At 2pm, police name Moat as the man wanted in connection with the shootings.
11.30pm. Moat visits a friend, Andy Mcallister, at his home in Newcastle to deliver a letter explaining the shootings which Mr Mcallister later hands to police.
At 12.27am Moat makes a six minute 999 phone call in which he details his "grievances" with the police
Around 12.45am Pc David Rathband, 42, a uniformed patrol officer, is shot through the window of his vehicle while on duty at a roundabout where the A1 and A69 meet in Denton, west of Newcastle. He is seriously injured but manages to raise the alarm.
1.35am. Moat rings the police again on 999 and complains that they are "not taking me seriously enough".
6am. Northumbria police link the shooting of Pc Rathband to the shooting of Miss Stobbart and Moat is described as a "wanted man"
2pm. Police appeal directly to Moat, urging him to hand himself in for the sake of his three children.
No one forced him to commit a robbery on the Friday evening.
If he did take illegal steriods no one forced him to.
Why should he have had help given to him for his self inflicted problems he never asked for help & in the first letter wrote about
Lets blame everyone from God to the Devil except Raoul Moat, he is the"innocent"party here(NOT)
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Location: Berkshire U.K
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10-07-2010, 07:10 PM
He had a gun & ammunition, it was planned.
A spurned lover sends nasty texts, or gives the new partner a slap...I fail to see how his ex brought this on herself.
That's like saying rape victims ask for it because they venture out alone at night, or wear short skirts.
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Location: God's Own County
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10-07-2010, 07:13 PM
Originally Posted by Nicci_L
............
It is now being reported as a common assault, which isn't beating - he could have just been repremanding her - lets face it some parents STILL DO slap their kids, I was and it never did me any harm.
I'm sure had he beat her to a pulp he wouldn't have just served 9 weeks of an 18 week sentence.
This was the same man, who found that exact same daughter lying on the ground returning from the gym after she fell 35ft from a window, who described it being ''the worst moment of his life'' ''Who felt sick, as he thought she was dead'' - who then got into an arguement with the people responsible for housing them who wouldn't supply them with window locks to stop it happening again.
Why didn't he fit the window locks himself if he cared so much for his daughter ?????
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Location: Essex, UK
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10-07-2010, 07:14 PM
I've worked with victims of Domestic Violence there is a huge network of support there, I can only assume she declined the offer of what support was available to her
are you seriously saying it was her fault?
If you live in fear of your life, you do not move to the next street (As I know I sure as hell wouldn't), so she can't have deemed him that much of a danger to her.
Are you suggesting it was her fault for not running away?
It is now being reported as a common assault, which isn't beating - he could have just been repremanding her - lets face it some parents STILL DO slap their kids, I was and it never did me any harm.
if it`s serious enough to go to court it isn`t a slap. Grown men should not hit small girls. End of.
he gym after she fell 35ft from a window, who described it being ''the worst moment of his life'' ''Who felt sick, as he thought she was dead'' - who then got into an arguement with the people responsible for housing them who wouldn't supply them with window locks to stop it happening again.
I fitted my own window locks. And supervised my children properly. Why should it be the Council`s fault?
He blamed everyone but himself, which is why he never asked for help. By doing the same thing on his behalf you are condoning his actions.
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