Sibevibe.
Yes I would. I would explain to the owners it might take an extra session and that the dog might need the collar for longer but I would do it.
I've recently finished working with a malamute who klled three sheep. By the end of the 3rd session the owner could run at sheep the dog would follow then stop and move away.
With any idependant breed I would also use the collar to enforce recall.
With regards to strength of sensation. The coat doesn't matter as the contact points touch the skin. A thick coat may need longer contacts though, but the strength is uneffected.
There's a therory northern breeds have less sensitive skin than regular dogs due to the harsh conditions in their background but It's never played out for me. The malamute was on the same level as a collie I'd recently worked with with the collar. There's a similar therory about lads as they evolved to work in icy conditions, also never played out with me.
Even if a dog has a higher level than normal that does't mean he feels it different just that he's less sensitive.
Shona, about 15. As I say not a big part of my training.
Lillypup.
I actually don't like invisible fences (except to back up a real fence) but at times they are appropriate.
Most of my work is with dogs who either ignore the recall and chase or who look for opportunities to get loose and chase. I'd never advise jsut letting a dog roam. Even if he avoids sheep he could still get shot for being in the field with them!
I'm pleased you've had success with high drive dogs. I too have drivy dogs and don't need e collars for mine, what makes us different from some of my clients? Who knows the reality is I do meet people who need e collars.
Tassle
My experience is people have either no experience of them or have seen them used (or expect them to be used) big shock! Most of the time when training I have to tell an owner when I'm using the collar it's that subtle. Passers by aren't even aware the dog is wearing one.
Re pain, I would suggest if a dog recieved a totaly alien stimulus (e;g one it never felt before, unlike your dogs back) It would react to it in the way it felt it. If it was pain the dog would jump, startle, or yelp. The dog doesn't. Nore does the dog wince, brace it's self, or give off appeasing signals. I can get my dogs to give the excat same response to e collar sensation by just pointing at the ground.
Emma. Your post length is no problem. To answer your questions as I see them.
1. High drive and managment.
Alsas not everyone has enough space or opportunity's to do so. Space is at a premium in the uk. MANY country homes will involve going out the door and encountering sheep in close proximity. A home with sheep (or whatever) may be a perfect home if the drive can be controlled and redirected.
2. can't use on humans why animals.
Because there not humans and we're unable to deal with there behaviour in the same way. An e collar is no harsher than many of the things done to control human behaviour anyway. In fact often its gentler and is immediate.
3. SENSATION ASSOCCIATION.
The sensation occurs immediatly when the dog looks, the lead is used after the sensation. No association is made.
4. Negative issues
Used at a low level there is no negative issues.
5. Speed of training
If the next incident results in death speed is important.
Re toddler' I have no experience but would say. There not dogs! so comparing training is pointless. A dog wouldn't understand an after the event reward several minutes later would it!
6. behaviour and welfare.
nr is the commonest training method, this was covered on the course. Welfare. nr does not impact on welfare.
If you bullet point the questions I'll answer better. Just to make sure I cover everything, this is not rudness. I believe I've covered your points. I just want to make sure.
Adam