Thanks Chris, just had a look (the links are CDs and Kennelclubs official puppies for sale page if anyone's curious).

Yes I would agree both are more 'desirable' but, neither show up high enough when you search for '_____ puppies for sale', hence they won't reach the target we want.

We want to reach the people who end up seeing the 'bad' breeders pups... because they need our help most. Chances are people going on the sites you mentioned are already doing their research in a more desirable way

Some really good ideas there Chaz, if only we could achieve it? Like you said it would take a lot of work, and to be honest, isn't this what charities like the Dogs Trust have been (trying to do) for years?

The difficult thing is getting people at the start of their journey - the moment they type in '___Puppies for sale' - and where do people end up when they do? Yep - those classifieds sites

That's why I think this is worth a shot - because nobody has ever attempted to tackle the problem this way before... and because it's so unorthodox, I think it might actually work

I have the belief that you need to have a platform for good breeders offering pups that are health tested and from good breeders.
Don't allow the puppy farmers. Word will get around that this is the place to go for good pups.

The kennel club allows anyone who breeds a KC reg litter and is willing to pay the fee to register their pups. Assured breeders are tagged and all around the site there is education. More and more people are now asking for pups from assured breeders people are being educated.
Soon the puppy lists will be mainly assured breeders.
The breeder scheme has been going since about 2003/4 they have worked hard at improving it and many have now been removed from it.
I have noticed this year a huge increase in people contacting me on the chance that I might be having pups because I am an assured breeder and have been one since 2004.

OK to get the links higher that can be done by making sure you have the correct search words on the initial pages.

Being the first to come up does not mean you are the most used or most popular site

How about we start with section in the breed areas that information about breeds and what health testing needs doing.

Us eht eforum to start to gather the information you would want on asite while you are working out how to do it.

If only things were that simple there are already a number of sites trying to do that (three already mentioned in this thread) but it's not working (enough). And it will never work unless one of two things happen:

• Legislation is brought in to prevent what we consider unethical breeding
  
• or
  
• Social attitudes (via education) change, and change fast

Can you honestly put hand on heart say either of these things are going to happen soon? I can't

And with that in mind that's why I think this idea may have a chance of working. It's just crazy, unorthodox, and nobody would expect it

It really isn't just about being first to come up (hope I haven't made it sound like that) it's the fact that that's what people are searching for. And as I mentioned in my point above, there are only two things really that can have any real effect on that. Sad but true.


We will get a section up at some point to try and work out what we need to get on this site and how and where etc. (If we go ahead with it.)

I wish there was some other way, that was doable and within our means - we just have to keep in mind all the millions the big charities have spent and even their mite hasn't put a stop to it al yet.

I understand that, but cant you do that without giving the bad breeder an new platform to advertise on.


You are opening a site that does not regulate any of its adverts......... OK, you have a hidden agenda, and will swing in through the back door. but to be honest by the time you hit them with it, the reputation of the site will already be tarnished...and you must know that once you have that reputation is almost impossible to get rid of it.

Ok, hears a scenario................. the site is up and running with all the disclaimers and warnings and so on, the message and ethos of the site is there for all to see.


An advert comes on for Boxer pups......... but I know this breeder I know for a fact they are BYB and all sorts of underhand things go on, I alert you to this ......................what will you do about it??

I know what you're saying Jackie, tho the way I am looking at it is that they have zillions of other platforms where they can do this already - and importantly (for us) is that we have no say or influence on those platforms.

So not only are we not able to get our message on those sites, we're not able to direct those users to Dogsey, and we're not able to collect statistical information either (and also won't be able to send the 'buyers' to that other new site - where we aim to raise at least a million pounds. We are just losing out on too much, hence maybe we need to bite our tongue and say, look, perhaps we can actually extract some good out of all this.

There is some other stuff too that I will post in the Sponsors section as I don't want it public just yet.

Does that sort of get my view across? That they're doing it anyway, and it's impacting a number of things and actually slowing dog progress on many other levels.

I totally know what you're saying there - that's partly why I started this thread, so the world can see we're actually doing it for good. That we did not create the problem, that they already have countless places to advertise, but in order for us to reach prospective dog buyers at the crucial stage, we have to do this. I think people will realise that (perhaps once they've thought about it) just as most of you guys have

Unfortunately we couldn't do anything ourselves - just as we don't allow naming and shaming here - because it's your word against theirs, and if you're wrong we would get sued. Sad but that's how it is. However, what we could do is pass on any reports to the RSPCA. In fact, that is one of the goals - to share stats with animal welfare societies so they can get a good picture of what's going on. Again, another reason to do this - as I'm sure the info would be useful.

As I mentioned previously, I think there's only two other things that could fix the problem. Either legislation is brought in to highly regulate breeding, or social attitudes change (and importantly for those people 'before' getting a dog) - and people have been trying to do that latter for years, and with millions of pounds.

Can you see how there are just so many plus points to doing it? We just have to keep in mind that we didn't create the problem - but are taking it on and are trying to fix it (whilst also trying to extrapolate any good we can). In an unorthodox way perhaps, but I think that's why it could end up being really effective.

I'm just thinking out loud here, don't know if it will be achievable, but it might be a good idea to have a free ad site that starts with a home page that has something like 'its not a toy, so don't buy battery' written on, something short that gets people reading it to work out what its about, and that is comparing people like puppy farmers to battery animals, like chickens for example, and then do simple bullet points on things like the downside of buying from bad breeders, and what to look for in a good breeder, then have classifieds to such good breeders, maybe even start searching good breeders who advertise on the other sites, contact them and ask if you could place their adds on your site, explain why, contact breed clubs and see if they would pass your site onto its members, again explaining why, and what your hoping to achieve, and that you need help to do so, and the rescues you talked of earlier, ask them if they could link to your site, or let people know of your site, and have a page dedicated to rescue dogs, as well as breeders, let word of mouth get around, ask people to advertise if their only planning a litter to get more ads, coz will that help bring you up on search egines? And let fb know of a new 'breed' of classifieds, ask dog publications to help spread the word, so that when the average joe is looking for a dog people who know can turn them away from the bad classfieds and direct them to yours. And if possible have breeds health problems and a little description of each breed somewhere easy to find. Its all ideas, but I do think that its the less chances bad breeders have to advertise the better. Just to add, maybe writing where to meet and have the chance to see the same breed as you want on the site could help, things like discover dogs, and breed shows, I don't know, its all thinking out loud really.

OK I may be missing the point entirely here, well I think I maybe.

IMO people want what they want. A lot don't think about or care if it is right or wrong.
Their choices can be a fickle as the next film out that stars a dog. Any amount of information out there will not convince them that breed is not for them because
a. they won't believe you,
b. They won't read the information, that is for other people. not them.
c. If it goes pear shaped they can sell it on because they are rare.
d. Have a litter get loads of money get shut of the bitch and keep ma cute puppy again.

You can only put the information out there for people that just don't know but care and be realistic about what you can achieve or you will just get broken hearted.