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Stripe
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Stripe is offline  
Location: Co. durham
Joined: Jul 2009
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13-07-2009, 11:22 PM
I have been sitting back reading this thread with interest.
You could argue the medical points for/against for ever as there is sound research done on both arguments (IMO coming out in favor of the viewpoint of whoever wrote them)
As for neutering all cross breeds I have two working dogs (crossbreeds) whose linage I can trace back generations.
These dogs have been bred responsibly to improve the breed (conformation/temperament/working ability) and as with any other type of dog you should only breed from the best, but you cannot tell this at 6 months old.(and remember you cant stick bits back on once they are chopped off)
In 30 years of dog ownership I am in the process of breeding my first litter to improve the line/type and have good homes ready for all of the pups (is this irresponsible/)
Yes everybody is entitled to their own opinions but when sweeping generalizations like that are made accusing unknown people of being irresponsible it is out of order.
Please think of others who are responsible dog owners before going on a crusade to tell everybody what they should do.
Stripe
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Moonstone
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14-07-2009, 04:19 AM
Why remove a part of a dogs anatomy before it is mature? TBH I have had no problems with my dog who at two years old is still intact, never humped, or shown any inclination to, he has never tried to get a a bitch in season either I would never allow it anyway. He is very chilled out and not aggressive towards other dogs too, as he has matured into an adult.

I consider myself responsible, and can not see any reason to remove his furry plums at all, he is a well mannered doofus, and any hooligan behaviour during the teenage months, was normal dog behaviour, I really don't think early castration would of improved it, just common sense and training.

The worse humper I have ever seen, was a neutered male, that would hump anything, he was also neurotic and fear aggressive.He was neutered at about 6 months. He was all over the place before castration, and then after they were removed, he actually got worse and more insecure.

Also , surely it is better to wait till a dog is physically mature, until growth is completed? Mack is still filling out at two years old, and I love his maleness, that is why I wanted a male dog.

Each to their own, but I hate it when people get preachy about castration, he is my dog, he doesn't wander, he doesn't hump, isn't aggressive, and is growing into a mature confident adult male, but not cocky, just confident. So his nuts stay attached xxxx
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mishflynn
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Location: Cardiff, UK
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14-07-2009, 05:13 AM
My Views on Neutering. For my own Dogs.

If i get a male dog, i want to to be the "best" it can be mentally , Emotionally & physically, & to me this means leaving the balls on. Mav is 3 in september & his head & coat are still developing. Neutering too soon can cause "bitchy" looking heads, too long legs & slab sides, it can also make the dog slower to mentally mature. Two of Mavs litter mates were neutered early & its very interesting to see their development as opposed to Mav, & also to each other one was done at around 8 months & the other after a year. Very interesting.
After the dog is fully developed & if there were no probs then id leave them on.

If the dog isnt going to be used id have them off at around 6, when the coat is looking fantastic & the dog is still healthy enough to cope with the op & make a good fast revovery. Id prefer to do this then before prostrate , cancerous problems start to occur in a older dog as i dont like to put a older dog under.

For the gals same kind of applies, not till 2/3years old or after two "good" seasons. If i wasnt going to breed from the bitch, id get them speyed at this point in any case, as the risk of pyo is not one im prepared to take. What i would do though is to take careful note of the bitches mood after the seasons & spey her when i know (month wise ) when shes at her best emotional/hormonal state.


*****

Humping dogs.
IMO neutered dogs hump alot more than intact males.

(in my house 3x speyed bitches, 1x castrated dog , one intact dog......all the bitches hump & no boys )

*******

JUst my op, everyone owns their own dogs & should make choices that suit them best
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muttzrule
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14-07-2009, 05:22 AM
I believe all rescue dogs should be neutered BEFORE going to their new home. Too many homeless dogs destroyed every year not to. If this means they get neutered at 8 weeks, so be it. Its for the best interest of dogs everywhere.
I used to work for the vet that took care of all our city shelter dogs, they were all castrated before leaving us for their families as long as they were at least 8 weeks (12 for females) and healthy. I was the one in charge of making sure the ones that didn't get done, came back to get done. Let me tell you the run around and million escuses people came up with for not getting their dog done (already paid for with adoption). One was returned the the shelter with her litter of pups six months later.

I get it that the people here on dogsey are mostly responsible people that are capable of properly containing their dogs and preventing pregnancies, BUT I contend that MOST people are not equipped or capable, or willing to do that. For that reason, we, the responsibile, must do the best thing for the dog, and take the chance out of the equation and neuter the dog. One dog neutered early = saving the lives of however many puppies that dog may have sired in its lifetime that no one wants.

That said, I work at an Emergency vet now, we saw a testicular torsion on a three year old Mastiff last week. That dog died a brutal and agonizing death. Could have been prevented.
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Ramble
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14-07-2009, 06:01 AM
Originally Posted by Labman View Post
There are many highly trained dogs that are neutered. I resent the suggestion you are a superior trainer because you haven't taken the responsible step to neuter your dog.
I haven't suggested for a moment that I am a superior trainer...I just answered a question directed at me.
The majority of assistance dogs in this country are neutered. It is my experience with them that makes me say neutering at an early age is wrong....although with assistance dog charities I can see the need more in terms of getting the dogs through training.

I have trained dogs that have been neutered at around 8/9 months and dogs that are entire. I know which I prefer.
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banji
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14-07-2009, 06:46 AM
Originally Posted by kcjack View Post
Good job some people have sense to neuter imagine what would happen if everyone had this attitude.


the only reason i got mine neutered was for medical reasons, i would not have otherwise and will not if i get a another male dog.you can train your dog to stay away from in season bitches.if people do not spend that much time with their dogs and put the effort in then maybe they shouldnt have dogs.
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Tupacs2legs
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Joined: May 2009
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14-07-2009, 06:47 AM
Originally Posted by mishflynn View Post
My Views on Neutering. For my own Dogs.

If i get a male dog, i want to to be the "best" it can be mentally , Emotionally & physically, & to me this means leaving the balls on. Mav is 3 in september & his head & coat are still developing. Neutering too soon can cause "bitchy" looking heads, too long legs & slab sides, it can also make the dog slower to mentally mature. Two of Mavs litter mates were neutered early & its very interesting to see their development as opposed to Mav, & also to each other one was done at around 8 months & the other after a year. Very interesting.
After the dog is fully developed & if there were no probs then id leave them on.

If the dog isnt going to be used id have them off at around 6, when the coat is looking fantastic & the dog is still healthy enough to cope with the op & make a good fast revovery. Id prefer to do this then before prostrate , cancerous problems start to occur in a older dog as i dont like to put a older dog under.

For the gals same kind of applies, not till 2/3years old or after two "good" seasons. If i wasnt going to breed from the bitch, id get them speyed at this point in any case, as the risk of pyo is not one im prepared to take. What i would do though is to take careful note of the bitches mood after the seasons & spey her when i know (month wise ) when shes at her best emotional/hormonal state.


*****

Humping dogs.
IMO neutered dogs hump alot more than intact males.

(in my house 3x speyed bitches, 1x castrated dog , one intact dog......all the bitches hump & no boys )

*******

JUst my op, everyone owns their own dogs & should make choices that suit them best
good post!! my views exactly
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Hevvur
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14-07-2009, 06:56 AM
Since my Yorkie was castrated at age 7, he humps his bed all the time.
Before he was castrated, strangely, he never humped.
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Mahooli
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14-07-2009, 07:26 AM
Originally Posted by kcjack View Post
I wish so much that people would get young males castrated at 6 months.
In the last week we have taking in 8 males between 10-18 months and we just cant take any more am turning them away daily.
They all exhibit humping being the biggest problem, dominance, and just general hypo and what I would say no manners.
I am a huge fan of early castration from what I have seen it stops the behaviour before it starts and becomes habit. It seems other rescues are having same probs with young males.
I am so so lucky Kato is tolerant with these young uns when they 1st come in and hypo he really is helping me teach them manners and boundaries.
To me that isn't a neutering issue but a training one. Castration is not a cure all, despite some claims to the contrary, and should be dealt with on an individual basis. Castrating to deal with a behaviour without really knowing the cause of that behaviour is the wrong way to tackle such issues.

Originally Posted by banji View Post
i have a bitch in season at presant, a five year old dog who was neutered at 6months old and a 8 year old dog who was neutered at 5 years old having been a stud dog.
the five year old is after her non stop and is incredibly annoying.also he scent marks the house.he is a nuiscance in many ways, but lovely also. it appears he is compensating for what he lost when he was 6months old. the 8 year old ex stud dog is the best natured male dog i know and was also when he was entire. so the theory there does not apply to my dogs and many other people who i know who own entire male dogs.
if i get any more male dogs i wont be getting them neutered again.
in some cases i know its necessary from a medical point of view, thats different, but just to stop pups it doesnt automatically give better behaviour in a dog.
Have to agree with this. My Percy (dachsie) was sold on because he humped everything (he was 5 mths old when I got him) but a couple of days with me saying no to his behaviour stopped it completely. My Boxer was castrated at 6 years and despite siring a litter completely ignored bitches in season after that. However, my castrated terrier (done at 10 mths) would mount and tie with in season bitches every season! That ha shown me that every dog and every situation is different and should be dealt with as such.

Originally Posted by kcjack View Post
I mean top breeders as in the best, in health tested stock dogs living in good conditions not just used as "stock"
Define 'best', that is a very subjective thing!

Originally Posted by kcjack View Post
Well obviously you know more than all the vets and studies that have been done that show its beneficial and healthier for a dog.
or maybe we have read all the studies and listen to all the vets who don't agree with early neutering!

Originally Posted by kcjack View Post
I have worked at a vets for 12 months and met many, have never met any vets against neutering.
I doubt there is any vet against neutering per se as it is how they fill their coffers!

Originally Posted by kcjack View Post
Wow you guys know so many vets how come? all the vets I worked with there dogs were done.
All the vets that I know that ha dogs also bred them!

Originally Posted by kcjack View Post
But I had Kiera speyed at 6 months and she is a wonderfully adjusted 2 yr old and she is the rule to this not the exeption.
You cannot categorically say it is the rule based on one individual.

I'm not against neutering at all but I think it needs to be done for the right reasons and at the right time. I do understand that rescues will neuter everything that comes through their doors and I understand the reasons for it but that doesn't mean it should be applied to all.
I personally would never neuter a male again except for health reasons but I do believe in neutering bitches if they are not going to be bred from or after they have been bred as I think the risk of a pyo in an old bitch is too great and better spay young when reasonably healthy than when old and frail.
Becky
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Pidge
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14-07-2009, 07:34 AM
Becky, how do you know what the right reasons are and when the right time is?

Ramble, if you have full experience of entire and castrated dogs (which of course I know you do) what are the benefits of leaving the dog entire?

All, I'm not sure I agree with KCJack getting a flaming for being pro castration guys. I have yet to see factual evidence that neutering is wrong as some of you are so vehemently suggesting.
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