register for free
View our sister sites
Our sister sites
Our sister sites
Our sister sites
sky_high_bluest
Dogsey Senior
sky_high_bluest is offline  
Location: whiston merseyside
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 288
Male 
 
13-04-2007, 10:59 PM
Originally Posted by Patch View Post
In the days before dog fighting, [ and bear baiting before that ], was banned, there was no standard as such, they were bred to fight and there were many variations in build depending on breeders preferences for what they felt gave the best advantage to fight, be it stocky and shorter, or more rangy, and other variations.

So those breeding for `original` have no actual `original` physical standard to follow as such, therefore how can anyone claim to breed to an `original standard` unless it is to breed dogs particularly capable of fighting, [ whether they intend to have that happen or not ], as per the actual `originals` of the times when fighting was legal...

Regarding temperament, Staffies rarely start a scuffle, [ those not used for fighting ], because they are supposed to be confiden in themselves and not easily phazed, however they are more than prepared to finish a fight and once they have they can all too easily have it ingrained to then *want* to fight, [ more than pure fear related dog aggression, as mentioned thats a separate issue which can affect any dog of any breed / ,mix ], from that moment on and if optimumly physically built to fight that spells potentially big trouble.
Thats a temperament issue which needs addressing, [ I believe so anyway ], and using any dogs from `original` established fighting strains will not help stop that temperament issue occuring for future dogs.

I probably have`nt explained very well, my braincell has been overworked already today, so please could everyone bear that in mind before reading my comments the wrong way
the original standard refered to is the original KC standard!
Reply With Quote
SBTlover
Dogsey Junior
SBTlover is offline  
Location: Scotland
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 37
Female 
 
13-04-2007, 11:02 PM
patch my brain is the same reading 35 pages of that pitbull post!

agree with the stafford in general will not start a fight but is capable of finishing it if need be
Reply With Quote
Patch
Dogsey Veteran
Patch is offline  
Location: Virtual Showground
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,518
Female 
 
13-04-2007, 11:03 PM
Originally Posted by sky_high_bluest View Post
here are some clear dangers of the taller Irish dogs!!

there is a clear danger they will put a smile on a small childs face!

then they will want a kiss!!

even the smallest of children isn't safe from there deadly charm!!

jokeing aside they have to be told off from time to time for crimes against flowers!!

this one is behind bars for being TO CUTE!!


The height of a Staffie is nothing to do with how they interact on the temperament side with people of all ages, [ or with flowers :smt081 ], there`s a very good reason they are called Nanny dogs

People who know and appreciate Staffies are not questioning their suitability with people, especially children, quite the opposite in that regard !
Reply With Quote
Hayley SBT
Dogsey Veteran
Hayley SBT is offline  
Location: south west
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,399
Female 
 
14-04-2007, 08:31 AM
Well said Dave and Elaine.
The only thing that was changed was the height, from everything else is almost the same as the original standards.

The point being there is no difference in temperament, I do not think any Stafford people arugue over that, Short, fat, fit, tall whatever they have the same temperament.

Now where a lot of us people have the problem is the fact 2 inches was taken off the standard without dropping the height, which has caused a squashed effect in to comparison with the Stafford bred they way they where originally. If anything the KC stafford seems to be bulky then the Original bred SBT, they are/were lean, with nice muscle type. If I was allowed Id use examples but to many rules on this forum lol!
Its for health, nothing to do with temperament.
Reply With Quote
Nicci_L
Almost a Veteran
Nicci_L is offline  
Location: UK
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,415
Female 
 
14-04-2007, 01:28 PM
The KC changed the Staffordshire Bull Terrier Standard twice.
It was first changed in 1948 and then again in 1987 ( don't know why really only the wording in the standard changed - the wieght or height wasn't dropped from what I can see)

In my eyes there is no original Standard there may have been in 1937 but that has long gone along with the dogs of yesteryear, only the standard we have is the one of today which I personally think is the one that should be adhered to, the standard was changed for a reason, and a good reason at that in light of BSL and the DDA ensuring the safety of the dogs and Staffordshire Bull Terrier breed itself.

And in light of the DDA and BSL it's dangerous for 'leggy' 'atheletic' types to be bred knowing at any given time those dogs could be siezed, we've seen it all to often with recent events - so in my opinion it is dangerous to breed to that long gone 1937 standard, dangerous and extremely sad for the dogs which I dread to say could loose their lives if someone comes along and decides they are 'type'.
Reply With Quote
sky_high_bluest
Dogsey Senior
sky_high_bluest is offline  
Location: whiston merseyside
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 288
Male 
 
14-04-2007, 02:38 PM
the height was dropped 2" in 1987 with no reduction in weight. the reson, as far as I can see, was to distance the staff from the dda and bsl.
Reply With Quote
Nicci_L
Almost a Veteran
Nicci_L is offline  
Location: UK
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,415
Female 
 
14-04-2007, 02:48 PM
Actually I've just been having a read, the height in the Stafford standard has not changed as far as I can see since 1948.

The actual drop in height was in 1948 it was changed from 15-18 inches to 14-16 inches as far as I can see, 1987 only the wording and the way the dogs were measured was changed in the 1987 Stafford standard.

Edited to word things more clearly.
Reply With Quote
Hayley SBT
Dogsey Veteran
Hayley SBT is offline  
Location: south west
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,399
Female 
 
14-04-2007, 05:47 PM
Originally Posted by Nicci_L View Post
Actually I've just been having a read, the height in the Stafford standard has not changed as far as I can see since 1948.

The actual drop in height was in 1948 it was changed from 15-18 inches to 14-16 inches as far as I can see, 1987 only the wording and the way the dogs were measured was changed in the 1987 Stafford standard.

Edited to word things more clearly.
Yes your correct BUT if you read this



1935

Tail. The tail should be of medium length tapering to a point and carried rather low; it should not curl much and may be compared to an old-fashioned pump handle.

1948

Tail - The tail should be of medium length, low set, tapering to a point and carried rather low. It should not curl much and may be likened to an old-fashioned pump handle.

1987

Tail - Medium length, low set tapering to a point and carried rather low. Should not curl much and may be likened to an old-fashioned pump handle.

POINTS TO NOTE:

(1) Apart from the addition of "low set" in 1948, this clause remains basically unchanged - thank goodness!

1935 - Not mentioned.

1947 - Not mentioned.

1987

Gait/Movement - Free, powerful and agile with economy of effort. Legs moving parallel when viewed from front or rear. Discernible drive from hindlegs.

POINTS TO NOTE:

(1) Did not exist until 1987!

1935

Weight. Dogs 28 to 38 lbs. Bitches 4lbs less.

1948

Weight and size - Weight: Dogs, 28lb. to 38lb. Bitches, 24lb. to 34lb. Height (at shoulder), 14in to 16in, these heights being related to the weights.


1987

Weight and size - weight: Dogs 28lbs to 38lbs. Bitches 24lbs to 34lbs. desirable height (at withers), 14 to 16 inches, these heights being related to the weights.


In 1948 it was changed to 14-16 but only measuring from the shoulder, which in not taking in the extra inch/s from the shoulder to the withers. So infact from toe to shoulder the Stafford could be 15-18 still.

Then In 1987 it was changed from shoulder to withers so from to toe to withers, so from toe to shoulder they now have to be 14-16 inches.
Yes this is not a stafford but close enought and withers and shoulders are all in the same place, regardless of the breed of dog, but of course the height measurement changes!


http://www.staffordmall.com/standardhistory.htm
Reply With Quote
SBTlover
Dogsey Junior
SBTlover is offline  
Location: Scotland
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 37
Female 
 
14-04-2007, 06:20 PM
i agree hayley adn that was well described and easy to understand thanks
Reply With Quote
Nicci_L
Almost a Veteran
Nicci_L is offline  
Location: UK
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,415
Female 
 
14-04-2007, 06:30 PM
Yes, but my whole point is...The standard was first changed in 1948 11 years after the standard was first introduced, do you not think or believe that the standard was changed in 1948 by the very same people that created that standard in 1937? 11 years in the great scheme of things is not a long time, most of the people originally involved within the Stafford circles were quite possibly still alive.
I don't see anywhere in todays standards as it only says 'desirable height' that Staffords would be penalised for being perhaps an inch taller. So to me the standards haven't changed a great deal and people should adhere to the standards that are set, instead of breeding badly bred leaner, taller non KC staffords.

But of course thats just my opinion
Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 6 of 27 « First < 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 16 > Last »


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 


© Copyright 2016, Dogsey   Contact Us - Dogsey - Top Contact us | Archive | Privacy | Terms of use | Top