Brierley
Got to admit, I've only skim read some of the posts but can't remember seeing it being suggested that this dog should have been put to sleep. Can you direct me to the post(s) please??
Denis
It does not matter what you can’t remember, this post was made by a pet owner for pet owners, the difference between the original poster and the regular pet owners is the fact my client has experience of both positive training and all round mixed drive stimulation training, which is what I use. For a list of those who would have this dog PTS refer to my link for 'The Magnificant 7' - you are one.
The full account of both methods is in the first post, and the recommendations from the pet owner,cth1013, are at the bottom of the post. Those recommendations are based on the results of both methods by a pet owner with both experiences and an obvious preference. Most pet owners who read it can clearly understand that.
Pet owners can also see what you cannot, that several posters on here would have literally (I speak as the personal trainer in this case) would have had that little dog killed by their dogmatic statements that this dog must continue the regime which had been taught to the pet owner, the question is also obvious, how many other dogs have been lost to this ‘trainer’?
So if you cannot see what would have happened by reading these pages then there is no point in your reading these pages, these sort of places are only of benefit to those who can see what’s going on, in your case you cannot see the points in this post.
You are a someone who calls themselves a positive trainer a member of APDT who has not declared their commercial interest APDT is a commercial co-operative the same as ‘The De-Lux Mini Cab Company’ - ‘Dyno-Rod’ or similar commercial bodies.
Your commercial interests are in conflict with the pet owner poster because APDT members signed the membership long BEFORE any modern e-collar was invented, in 1998, you did not only ban yourselves from using modern e-collars, you banned yourself from learning anything at all about them once they were invented, in 1998.
No APDT member knows anything at all about using e-collars, they banned themselves from learning anything about them before they even existed and left themselves with only one extremely confined training method, which amounts to treats, treats and more treats, with a self imposed ban they are hardley likey to tell fee paying clients "An e-collar would be good with your dog but I cannot use one".
Positive reinforcement of wanted behaviour and ignoring unwanted behaviour is an excellent method of training, however, there is nothing new about it, clickers are also very good for those who prefer them to voice which is why some e-collars are fitted with a clicker sound, many e-collar users use clickers as well but they are not new. We used them for tricks in the 1950’s and in those days circuses always used them with performing dogs, we called them crickets, they were in fact a toy and made of tin.
The limitations of simply using positive reinforcement for environmental safety and legal requirement obedience training (recalling the dog from chases in any situation which puts the dog at risk or just because you want a recall) is that it only works with very quiet dogs from puberty onwards, (7-8-9 months the changes start ) once puberty arrives if your dog is not a quiet type it will not respond to obedience commands if it has something better to do.
You can still use positive reinforcement for tricks or agility and things like that but for everyday obedience, running round the woods, chasing this or that you will soon find that a very obedient puppy which does everything you want starts doing exactly the opposite from around 7 months onwards, they are learning ignoring behaviours and if you do not change methods at that point or you are in for lifetime of problems.
APDT cannot use e-collars, they banned themselves before they were even invented so they have to say something to justify why APDT dogs which are not quiet ignore their owners and why those where a modern e-collar is used as a training aid is running round like hells bells but under perfect control with worry free owner.
Below, positive training 1950’s ( probably 1957). She was a fully trained farm bred working BC. I was the trainer throughout her life. I earned all my pocket money with her from when I was around 10 or 11, although I was probably 9 when I got her as my first dog.
Do I know all about positive reinforcement techniques, I can run rings round any so called positive trainer with it, maybe most important,I know its limitations, they only tell pet owners its new a sales gimmick, dont believe 'em, the copied us but in a very bungled amature way.
Trick training (sometimes with a cricket or a clicker as they call them these days.)
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/shots49/16.jpg
The child trained working dog.
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/shots49/1b.jpg
Now, I have to run my dog before its to darn hot.
PSThey called me 'Little Elvis' then