I don't know from breed specifications or anything else but I feel that ear cropping and tail docking is barbaric. My poor Callie came to us with a stubby tail, looking almost like someone used kitchen shears when he was a pup. Sophie has a natural tail for a bully breed and it's beautiful. In the states it's legal to do the procedures but most vets frown on it. I was in a pet store with Callie one day and a girl slid next to me. In a whisper that sounded more like she was looking for a fix she said "Where did you get his tail done?". She had a bully puppy in her cart. I basically told her I don't know where it was done but I'd like to hurt the people involved...

I've never had the urge to really post on here before but I thought I'd just come to the defence of an earlier poster, it is completely true that tail/ear docking has been used quite extensively to disguise faulty dogs. Indeed the sole reason ear docking was disallowed in my breeds standard is because it was hiding the fact that some of the dogs would have been coming to the ring hound-eared.

Can you elaborate on what ring you mean, as ear cropping in the UK has been banned for over 100 yrs, plus they are not a recognised breed here, I guess you must mean in the country of origin, is cropping part of the standard in the US, and are they also recognised by the AKC.

Surely if a dog had ears like a hound, they would be unsuitable to crop anyway , so not sure how cropping a hound type ear would disguise an incorrect ear

Showing and yes in the country of origin, the breed is recognised by the NKC and various breed specific registries, I wouldn't hold my breath for AKC recognition in the near future, indeed many breeders consider the breeds last dalliance with the AKC and its dogs to be the worst thing that ever happened to it.
The standard originally allowed docked or full ears but later mandated a full ear due to people simply removing faulty ears, largely in an effort to hide the impurities in their line.
Cropping any kind of ear is exactly the same process provided it is done before the cartilage hardens.

Clearer?

At what age does the cartilage harden?

Yes I know this, but the ear shape , carriage and set of the ear will determine a good crop.

A badly shaped ear is a badly shaped ear whether it's cropped or not.

Hence the point cropping and docking does not hide faults, to crop and dock you want a good tail set / carrage , same with ears you want a correct ear to get a good crop, if the ear is to long the crop is not going to look right, unless ofcause you cut the whole thing off like many pit bulls seem to have done.

Thank you, Mr. Bulldog for saying that. What you need to understand with Jackie is that if she hasn't experienced it personally (or if I say it) it's not true and is to be debated.

As if a battle or short crop wouldn't disguise big Labrador ears on a pit bull terrier (which I already said). Even a medium could probably completely hide that fault TBH.

Cropping just cuts the ear at a certain point, it can hide almost any fault to the ear flaps themselves, it just cannot hide faults with the ear set, but that is not always the part of the dog that is faulted... same as with tail docking.

Also just because a breed is not recognized in the UK doesn't mean it's not a breed. The AKC doesn't recognize American Bulldogs, either. They are usually registered with the UKC or some other club.

How many breeders of traditionally docked cropped breeds do you know ?

PS... This is the debate section you know !

Did I say the America bulldog was not a breed

Its fine mjfromga you had touched on a good point, and yes debate is never a bad thing. I should probably say that I never experienced this issue personally as it was primarily before my time with the breed docking is illegal here anyway and my imported Koura bitch certainly still has ears, any of the old guys in the AB community will tell you the same story though, we cannot deny the experience of others afterall.
I think part of the confusion over what I said may be due to the fact that when I say "hound ear" people are immediately envisaging huge scenthound ears hanging half way to the floor when this is not necessarily the case. As far as cropping styles seen on those old dogs it pretty much ran the gamut from the "no ear" you might see on for example the APBT, Bully Kutta or Alabai to the "high" style you would associate with Boxers or Dobes. As far as the aesthetic value of the cropping was concerned its almost irrelevant, an ear cannot be faulted if it has been hacked off and the standard permits this, this was later amended to close this loophole.