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Jet&Copper
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27-07-2012, 02:13 PM
Originally Posted by rune View Post
I have another more relevant scenario for you.

Dogs being banned from park areas, national trust grounds and beaches due to irresponsible thoughtless dog owners who refuse to pick up and follow rules.

rune
I have a good example.

I do not agree with the 70mph speed limit on some motorways. I think it should be higher, especially at quieter times of day.

However, i have to accept that this is currently the law in this country and if caught speeding I will be fined etc.

So what I should do is continue to follow the law but lobby to have the law changed by discussion of the issue by the powers that be.

I would have to accept that whatever decision is made is based on protecting everyone in society and not just what *I* want.

That is what a democratic society is.
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Gnasher
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27-07-2012, 02:15 PM
Originally Posted by Heather and Zak View Post
And I wonder if your son or daughter had been a fireman/firewoman and allowed to go down when it wasn't safe and they got killed,you would think, well that's ok because it's their job. No I would not be happy. So are you saying you would be willing to be the person that says 'it's not safe but in you go'. There would be uproar if a lot more had been killed by another bomb going off. People would be asking why wasn't it checked that it was safe for them to go in. So it's all swings and roundabouts really.
I would be INCREDIBLY proud of them. And if I happened to be there, on the street above the underground, I would have URGED them to go down and do their duty, in the full knowledge that I might never see them again.

It is not swings and roudabouts at all. If you are a fireman, a soldier, or a policeman, you sign up in the full knowledge that you could be maimed or even killed. Your duty is to risk your life in the defence of others - you know this, your family know it, and have to live with it. You don't like it, no-one wants to die or be seriously hurt, your family likewise, but it is your duty, it is part of your job.

Where would we have been in WW2 if men like my father had refused to go into battle because it was dangerous!!
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spot
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27-07-2012, 02:17 PM
Originally Posted by Gnasher View Post
come on Rune, you can do better than this surely!!

Let's kick off with some scenarios for you ...

If it were your child stuck down that tube in London, don't you think you would be begging those firemen to break the rules and get down there to help her? Don't you think you might say "to hell with the rules, if you want to go, risking your life, ignore the ***** rules!"
How about if a your child wandered into a garden and got mauled by a dog - would you want all dogs muzzled all the time?
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Gnasher
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27-07-2012, 02:18 PM
Originally Posted by Jet&Copper View Post
I have a good example.

I do not agree with the 70mph speed limit on some motorways. I think it should be higher, especially at quieter times of day.

However, i have to accept that this is currently the law in this country and if caught speeding I will be fined etc.

So what I should do is continue to follow the law but lobby to have the law changed by discussion of the issue by the powers that be.

That is what a democratic society is.
But speed kills - the faster you are driving, the higher the likelihood of you killing or being killed. The speed limits may seem pointless at times, and indeed I agree that some are, but having worked for the Police I am in agreement of them on the whole.
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Gnasher
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27-07-2012, 02:19 PM
Originally Posted by spot View Post
How about if a your child wandered into a garden and got mauled by a dog - would you want all dogs muzzled all the time?
No, because it is totally unreasonable. If my child had wandered into a garden where there was a dog that mauled her, I would blame myself entirely for not keeping a better eye on her.

Would I want the dog to be destroyed? If the mauling was severe enough - sustained, savage, not just a bite - then yes, I probably would.
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Tassle
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27-07-2012, 02:20 PM
Originally Posted by Gnasher View Post
But speed kills - the faster you are driving, the higher the likelihood of you killing or being killed. The speed limits may seem pointless at times, and indeed I agree that some are, but having worked for the Police I am in agreement of them on the whole.
Dogs can (and sadly do) kill? Or seriously injure?

Are Laws with regards to that be acceptable? Or are they ones that should be broken?
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Jet&Copper
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27-07-2012, 02:21 PM
Originally Posted by Gnasher View Post
But speed kills - the faster you are driving, the higher the likelihood of you killing or being killed. The speed limits may seem pointless at times, and indeed I agree that some are, but having worked for the Police I am in agreement of them on the whole.
The point wasn't whether you agree with my pov on the matter, the point was I accept the law and follow it even if I don't agree with it.

If I want it changed I would try by going down the proper route and not just choose to ignore it.
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Heather and Zak
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27-07-2012, 02:23 PM
Originally Posted by Gnasher View Post
I would be INCREDIBLY proud of them. And if I happened to be there, on the street above the underground, I would have URGED them to go down and do their duty, in the full knowledge that I might never see them again.

It is not swings and roudabouts at all. If you are a fireman, a soldier, or a policeman, you sign up in the full knowledge that you could be maimed or even killed. Your duty is to risk your life in the defence of others - you know this, your family know it, and have to live with it. You don't like it, no-one wants to die or be seriously hurt, your family likewise, but it is your duty, it is part of your job.

Where would we have been in WW2 if men like my father had refused to go into battle because it was dangerous!!
Oh Gnasher you are really scraping the barrel now, I wonder how many people on here would URGE their child or family member to go into danger. You really have a way of deflecting the issue of people not agreeing with you burying your dogs poo on the beach. What have you thrown in now? Firemen, policemen, bombs and now onto WW2. My dad was also in the war and isn't it a good job that they had rules and regulations in the forces then or we would probably have not been born. As not many would have come home.
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spot
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27-07-2012, 02:24 PM
Originally Posted by Tassle View Post
Dogs can (and sadly do) kill? Or seriously injure?

Are Laws with regards to that be acceptable? Or are they ones that should be broken?
Tassle! lets not get back on topic here
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pippam
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27-07-2012, 02:34 PM
Originally Posted by Tassle View Post
Dogs can (and sadly do) kill? Or seriously injure?

Are Laws with regards to that be acceptable? Or are they ones that should be broken?
But the law with dogs depends on the situation doesn't it? In reguards to the swindon parents and the dog that mauled their child, it didn't have to be euthanised but the owners did anyway.

After all all though tragic as the event was it was the grandparents who were at foult and the dog was in his rights to protect his territory from intruders.
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